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Message board > no grammar
no grammar
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Nereis
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My adults ask me for grammar explanations because they need the skeleton to practice their speaking skill. if I only try to make them talk, they fell frightened . . . .
It �s my experience with adults.
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11 Aug 2009
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Lana.
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Whether or not students can apply grammar rules learnt earlier in class to real life depends A LOT on how the teacher conducts the class. Obviously, it makes no sense to do worksheets on Present Perfect Continuous and Simple for one hour, and then just switch to the Current Events conversation. It is the teacher �s responsibility to link grammar and everyday communication.
Also, the need must be created at the start so that the learner would see and feel where and how to apply the rule.
I �ll tell you a story.
In my life I have studied 5 languages.
Now, I know Russian as mother tongue, we studied its grammar rules at school plus I read a lot as I love reading. I know Latvian as the second language: we studied a lot of grammar at school, read and retold stories. Unfortunately, teachers didn �t create the need for us to use the newly learnt structures in hot debates, my tongue is tied, my speaking skills are limited
I studied German for three years - a lot of grammar but also a lot of vocab and writing - today I can only say "Ich heise..." I studied French with private tutor who gave me the grammar base for 1 year plus the reading rules plus smiles and encouragement, I was a child, at 18 I went to Belgium for 3 months and had to listen and try and speak French in the family where I was an au-pair, it was a deep plunge into French, an express course. I can still chat in elementary French today even if I don �t have daily practice.
I studied Turkish with my husband in his family, no grammar, but merely hearing, repeating, guesswork, gestures, now I can speak a little, but I feel powerless as everytime I want to make a sentnce in future or past I need to confirm as I never actually properly studied the rules. I feel so dependant.
Thus, does grammar play role in acquiring language independence? I think it does.
Yet again, we �re all so different, there are many different learner types...
But I �m not sure it is quite correct to compare a child �s learning ways and those of an adult. Honestly.
Lots of love to you all! |
11 Aug 2009
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celia86
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hi everyone!
wow I opened pandora �s box! jeje To all of you...be honest and say (leaving aside theories) do your ss speak more fluently thanks to grammar?? I think that �s what counts
love u all
celia  |
11 Aug 2009
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Spagman63
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Grammar is necessary. How can you talk about an object if you don �t know what the subject,verb etc are? The syntax will be all wrong.The tenses will be messed up. I teach grammar first and then use it to make conversation. Yes, we learn a language by listening but we also learn to refine that language via grammar. Bad grammar creates confusion. I have seen it many times in my ten years as an ESL teacher. I studied German many years ago and I learned "Wie heist du?" What if I said, "Heist du wie?" Germans would think I am dyslexic.  To make a correct sentence we need to teach syntax which is grammar.
What good is fluency if there is confusion? I can speak a bunch of Spanish words but if they don´t make sense in the context what is the point? Imagine an employer asks his foreign helper, "Where are the vegetables for supper?" She replies, "Oh, I go buy the vegetables." Did she buy them or WILL she buy them? I think grammar is VERY important.
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11 Aug 2009
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Lana.
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Good example, Spagman! 
Celia, I´d like to think we´re all honest here.
If someone says that he/she has achived good results including teaching grammar in the class, I´m sure they´re still honest, it´s just learning styles differ dramatically from culture to culture, from generation to generation, from age to age, from individual to individual. If grammar does help someone, why not accept it? |
11 Aug 2009
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celia86
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Dear spagman
I �m not saying that we shouldn �t teach grammar, I just think that we should provide our ss with lots of input instead of a pile grammar rules for them to study by heart, so that their speaking can become more uncoscious and therefore fluent 
grammar rules shouldn �t be our focus when teaching, communication should!
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11 Aug 2009
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Spagman63
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Celia,
They have to go hand in hand. I taught a London Test of English course and it was FULL of grammar points. Communication comes through grammar knowledge. When my baby says "MUM MUM" I know he wants his bottle or food. I know because of context. However, if my student days "Teacher, pencil." I am not sure of his/her meaning. Grammar rules make the language better. I think someday we will see ESL students protesting grammar outside the courtrooms. LOL
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11 Aug 2009
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celia86
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lana,
sorry if I offended you it wasn �t my intention, it was just an expression
thank you all for your comments |
11 Aug 2009
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Mar0919
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Well, I respect all the opinions given here, but I tell my students that of course I want them to speak English, to be able to produce what they are learning, but for them to KNOW English, they must master ALL FOUR BASIC SKILLS: READING, LISTENING, SPEAKING AND WRITING. If I didn �t teach them any grammar, how can they WRITE? Many Mexican ss at one point of their life, may go to other countries, but most commonly to the United States. If they have the need to apply for a job, they must fill a job application. If they didn �t know basic grammar structures, and couldn �t fill the information in properly, do you think they �d get hired? Even though maybe they spoke fluent English, you as an employer, would you hire someone who couldn �t even write where he has worked before, his skills, etc? I think all four basic skills are very important AS A WHOLE in order for ss to learn English. That �s just my very personal opinion, but respect all other posts here.
Cheers! |
11 Aug 2009
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celia86
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hi there!
I think that my idea has been missunderstood. Of course grammar is important, but in speaking and for achieving fluency I think that it is not essential. I teach grammar and will continue to do it because it is part of the language. But as far as fluency is concerned, for me, grammar rules serve as an obstacle when trying to be more fluent. I do not correct my ss when they make grammar mistakes while talking, I simply elicit a similar sentence (a correct one) for them to have proper input, I don �t go over the whole grammar rules for them to notice their mistakes. Do you get my point? Sorry if someone felt offended or insulted I respect all your opinions, thanks a lot I like to discuss these ideas with you
kisses
celia |
11 Aug 2009
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