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ESL forum >
Message board > what is your comment about native speakers ?
what is your comment about native speakers ?
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altan_neu
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what is your comment about native speakers ?
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ı really wonder about native speakers whether they are effective ın language classrooms despite their language deficiency of this country where they teach abroad.
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24 Nov 2009
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alien boy
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As models of both speech & written English they are certainly more legitimate than non-native speakers. We also have a tendency to use English that is standard for communication within our own countries. All this is in addition to any extra training or qualifications that we may have.
To me the distinction in effectiveness comes down to the intent of the curriculum, classroom & educational bureaucracy. In Japan students that attend cram school to study English will usually have a Japanese teacher who explains everything in Japanese. The intention is to prepare students for specific examinations, so they have to be ready for specific tests in specific formats with specific requirements & answer models. This focus is one reason why Japanese students have a very poor reputation for spoken English but a reasonable understanding of written English.
Cheers,
AB
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24 Nov 2009
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altan_neu
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yes ı am agree with you ladybird that ıf native speaker lacks this
ability he is not good for his student but native speakers get 2 years
CELTA certificate and are paid more attention in language schools or
... anyway learnıng a language is difficult for students and native
speakers makes it more difficult. how can they explain grammar or how
can they answer student �s needs? in English? wow :)
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24 Nov 2009
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hafidson
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Hi Ladybird,
you �re definitely right in that. It �s not enough to be a native English speaker to teach English well. What �s required is a full committment to the profession and a sincere dedication to one �s job. A very brief glance at the text above is sufficient to get an idea of what a greatEnglish"User"you are , so to speak. You would deliver much better than thousands of the natives. Many schools in Europe makes it necessary for English language job seekers to be native as if these had a magic wand and would let the students speak English in no time. I �ve had many American language teachers and most of them, I am afraid to say, were below average..So to all those who are looking for tutors or language teachers I say: Look beyond the applicants � nationality...I consider myself highly professional owing to my long experience in the classroom but all my applications to work for a language school in Europe have been rejected on the grounds that I am not a native speaker or not an EU citizen... What a shame!!!!!
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24 Nov 2009
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mena22
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I absolutely agree with AB and Silke when they say a good teacher (native or not) has to adapt his/her lessons to the students � needs and aims. If our students have a final written exam, no speaking, well, then teachers must focus their work on reading and writing skills. Fortunately, nowadays, (at least in Portugal), all foreign language exams must have a speaking activity, so that is no longer an excuse to avoid teaching and evaluating students � communication skills in speaking and listening.
Unlike in Japan, Portuguese teachers should be using English in their classes and not Portuguese. Of course it is not forbidden to use the mother tongue once in a while, especially when teaching a grammar topic to confront the use and form with our own language, but we really should use it as little as possible.
Now are native speakers better teachers than non-native speakers? They may be. They may not be. I absolutely agree with Silke. There are so many factors to take into account to get to what makes a good teacher. As a student and a teacher, I would say that it is definitely excellent to have a native speaker as a teacher in terms of language - the fluency, the accent, the richness of vocabulary and structures... I just love it! No matter how hard I try, I know that I will never speak quite like them. However, in terms of effectiveness, and that �s what our job is all about, I believe with Silke that it is not the fact that you are a native speaker that makes you effective. I would even say that this is a small factor if compared to others like the knowledge of the language - didactic and pedagogical.
Wish you all a good night.  mena |
24 Nov 2009
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Zora
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Hmm... I don �t know whether to be offended or not.
I have found there are good and bad teachers and being native or non-native doesn �t necessarily matter sometimes. While I do agree the "natives" should have a decent grasp on the students first language, I think that it �s the school �s fault, and not the "natives" for putting them in grammar structured situations unless they are bilingual and can explain, if needed, in the students own language.
My experience is that most "natives" should be in conversational type situations... THAT is where they are needed and quite honestly you cannot tell me a non-native has the vocabulary that a native has, no? We grow up with the sayings, the phrases, the usages of words in a way that a non-native might not ever acquire... and I can say this because I know two languages and I can testify that in Spanish, after 18 years, there are still things that are slightly foreign to me even though I am fluent.
So, it basically boils down to this... native teachers have their good points as well as their bad points... but to be quite fair... the fault is generally with the system and not the teachers being hired.
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24 Nov 2009
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libertybelle
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Where I teach - you have to be an accredited teacher, which means 4 years of teacher �s college before you even can step into a classroom.
So being a native speaker and a qualified teacher,-
I guess I have the best of both worlds and am very efficient.
I agree that not all English speaking people are the best teachers - nor are all musicians the best music teachers - nor are all chefs the best cooking teachers either -
but native-speaking English teachers do speak English correctly -
we don �t have problems with verbs - like you do in the title of your message:
what is your comments about native speakers ?
Comments is plural - therefore you should have asked:
What ARE your comments about native speakers.
or
What is your opinion on native speakers.............
and we don �t speak like a grammar book.
Just wondering - why did you ask that question?
What was your point?
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24 Nov 2009
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Samantha.esl
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When I was a student.. I had teachers (native ones) who would sit for the whole class and just turn the pages of the book, explain from their sits and and just correct and correct orally thousands of exercises. I used to feel very dissapointed.
I think that teaching isn �t a job for everyone... you have to like it and not do it for money only.. or because there isn �t anything else you feel like doing. It �s something you have to feel pationate about otherwise students have to suffer you..
And of course, teachers MUST have a degree... there are far too many people who do a course of 3 months and become teachers... I think that �s not right.
Libertybelle, I �d like to ask you what do you mean with "and we don �t speak like a grammar book."
I �d like to �hear � -read some examples.
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24 Nov 2009
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Olindalima ( F )
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Hi, altan
Dealing fairly, or quite fairly, or enough well, or being in a proficiency level of a foreign language has not to do with some grammar rules, but, with communication. It doesn �t matter if you say/ write something like this:
Hi, I be here cause they say I here.
Obviously tons of mistakes... obviously everyone, English speaking,understands.
I don �t speak, for instance, Italian, but I have a fair knowledge of some vocabulary, some now and then a grammar structure and, and a fair knowledge of intonation when speaking . this is all I need to have a "plenty" in my vacation, somewhere around in Italy. Italian are very kind people, they do understand what I TRY to say.
I am fairly kind, when I meet a foreigner, here, in my country, I DO TRY to understand him - that �s communication at a basic level. That �s where we, all, have to start.
A few months ago I met a foreign, man, from Ukrania, here, at my door, he didn �t speak Portuguese, nor English, nor French, nor German.... but, he needed to rent a room, I managed to understand him, he managed to make himself clear enough, and I got him the room he so much needed. COMMUNICATION
So, my opinion, native speakers do a lot more , not because they are smarter, but they just know, they know the language.
We, non native, can have, and I believe sometimes we do have, some more knowledge about rules; this is important, but it doesn �t matter it you know tons of rules and you can �t open your mouth and say :
Excuse me, please, could you tell me; where is the nearest toilet?
If you don �t know any grammar rules, you can ask something like this:
HEi. Hi, please, heres, huingfgfu,  toilet, yes, please, bathroom, toilet, no, yes, TOILET.
And, if you had been taught by a native speaker, in the end, you could say:
Ok, Not anymore, thank you
Hope I have driven you far deep in what concerns communication.
Hugs
linda
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24 Nov 2009
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Olindalima ( F )
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Oh my God, while I was writing everyone of you showed up, so many comments.
THIS is going to start a battle here
Come on people, take your seats---
Native against non-native
I am non native, I stay for native.
( Kind of traitor, seems to me ( shame on me ) )
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24 Nov 2009
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altan_neu
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sorry for �s � I have corrected :) the main topic is that for ınstance
a student ask what is the meaning of a sentence or a part of it or
something else, how do they explain ? they are learnıng a language with a language that they
don �t know. here is a contrast :)
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24 Nov 2009
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