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savvinka
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Dear Collegues,
SHALL OR WILL?
I probably missed smth, but I don �t know what �s about shall in the 1st person sing/plural in informal speech nowadays. We discussed it with sts today. They assured me that nobody say I/we shall anymore, it �s not cool to use it, I told them that we often don �t pronounce it at all I �ll, we �ll..., so it doesn �t matter in speech, also I promised to check with native speakers. And if I write I will meet my friend in a test, will it be a mistake? Thanks for your attention. |
25 Feb 2010
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dufffy
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Shall for the future( only used with I and we) is used only in very formal speech and is a little old fashion, but we do use it a lot for suggestions Shall we go to the lesson now?! |
25 Feb 2010
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RabbitWho
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In my opinion your students are right.
The whole
I shall
you will etc.
Conjugation of will is archaic, it is only used in Britain as far as I know, and only by some very old people or pedants.
In Ireland and America people never use the word "Shall" at all! Not even for questions or suggestions (maybe in some regions, but as far as I know.. )
In the Cambridge exams you certainly will not be penailsed for not using "I shall" any more than you would be penalized for not saying "Thou shalt"
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25 Feb 2010
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Sonn
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Shall is used as a modal (like in duffy �s example). But it isn �t used as an auxilary verb in colloquial speech anymore. |
25 Feb 2010
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alien boy
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just a little information from Swann �s Practical English usage about the difference between will & shall:
differences between will and shall
Will and shall are not only used for giving information about the future. They are also common in offers, promises, orders and similar kinds of �interpersonal � language use. In these cases, will (or �ll) generally expresses willingness or wishes (this is connected with an older use of will to mean �wish � or �want �). Shall expresses obligation (like a more direct form of should).
If you have access to Swann �s book you will find a lot of information about British use of shall & also examples of how it �s used in America.
Unlike Rabbit Who, I don �t here it just from very old people or pedants... there is a definite difference in intent when shall is used rather than will. It may however be indistinguishable in meaning when conjugated unless the listener & speaker are aware of the other �s intentions. It �s more a case of how broad an individual �s vocabulary is & whether they are aware of the difference or not! It may also be influenced by one �s social/cultural group.
Cheers, AB |
25 Feb 2010
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izulia
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In my school most of our teachers are British, but I remember only one elderly couple that used shall in the first person, e.g. I shall go to the green market tomorrow morning. It did sound a bit archaic and old fashioned. |
25 Feb 2010
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RabbitWho
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Alien Boy I was not talking about those uses of shall (suggestions, questions, etc) when I said it was for the elderly and pedants. "Shall I open the window?" Is very modern British English English. (Yes English English, because I don �t know if they would say that in Scotland?)
I was speaking of the old way of conjugating the future simple:
I shall
you will
he will/we will
you will
they will
we shall
Which is just silly! Are you honestly telling me you say "I shall answer the phone" instead of "I will answer the phone. or "I shall do my homework tonight." Instead of "I �m going to do my homework tonight? "If it is sunny this weekend, we shall have a picnic." I �ve never heard any but the very old and pedantic say those things! Unless I happen to be reading "The Railway Children".
Maybe it �s an Australian thing! ;)
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25 Feb 2010
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douglas
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In my everyday speech (US native) I don �t use shall except for the one phrase:
"Shall we?" |
25 Feb 2010
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cchat
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The main reason for the disappearance of shall is that we almost never use the full form in normal speech, but rather say:
I �ll go and get it.
I �ll do it.
I �ll see.
so it �s almost impossible to know whether the person was intending to use shall or will.
However, for suggestions, I always use Shall I? Shall we? but an Irish friend uses Will I? Will we?
I �m English, but not too pedantic, I hope. 
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25 Feb 2010
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cchat
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The main reason for the disappearance of shall is that we almost never use the full form in normal speech, but rather say:
I �ll go and get it.
I �ll do it.
I �ll see.
so it �s almost impossible to know whether the person was intending to use shall or will.
However, for suggestions, I always use Shall I? Shall we? but an Irish friend uses Will I? Will we?
I �m English, but not too pedantic, I hope.
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25 Feb 2010
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