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ESL forum >
Message board > WATERMARKED CLIPARTS
WATERMARKED CLIPARTS
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pilarmham
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WATERMARKED CLIPARTS
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Something worries me after taking a look at the page of reported contributions. Can you help me with my doubt?
I have seen a very nice worksheet full of watermarked cliparts. Of course, it was reported, because that is against the rules of the page. Now, my question is: I think most of us just google a word every time we need an image, and of course we choose one with no watermark, because we cannot use it here. However: THAT IMAGE PROBABLY HAS A COPYRIGHT, even if it is not so obvious. Actually, watermarked images make it clear that someone else created them; in fact, we are letting everybody know about the creators: that is plain publicity, fair play.
My question is: we certainly don �t want to infringe anybody �s rights, but... are our rules fair enough? And then, is it right to pay a subscripton and then not be able to use the images???
I �m just lost... |
9 Sep 2010
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zailda
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Hi!
I �m concerned about this rule in particular, and 2 days ago I posted a comment under one of the wss reported that day. Unfortunately I had to go to work and couldn �t follow other modetators � answers. Here you have what I posted that day:
"Watermarks from esl / picture sites are to prevent people from using the pics without paying. However, some sites have a wm on their pictures (as everyone can have on his personal blog) just to advertize in case they are redistributed. This kind of wm doesn�t mean the person using it infringed any rules. I may want to put a wm on all the pictures I use in my blog, but that doesn�t mean even that they belong to me or that I have any copyright on them.
Things are getting harder and harder and I confess that I don�t contribute as much as I used to, just because I fear having my wss reported by some reason (a small mark I didn�t notice, a similar picture in another site, etc.).
Most of us still search for pics in Google Images and if we have to look for the copyright of all the pictures we find it�ll be time-consuming and will make we feel disheartened.
Well, I talk for myself and don�t know if the other members share the same feeling. Are we supposed to buy the pictures we want to use to share our work here? Remember, the aim of the site is "to prepare wss for our students and share them here".
I�m not an artist (and don�t want to pretend I am), I don�t have money to buy pictures just to prepare extra work for my students (which I�m willing to share here, if I�m allowed to....).
I agree with the rules, I agree the site has to have clear rules, but if we report every ws that has a picture with a small mark, even if it is the member�s original work (and I�ve seen wonderful wss removed because of one wm), won�t this discourage members to share their work with us? I feel discouraged...
I don�t report wss because of wm. You may think I�m not fair because I report some wss and not others, but no one is obliged to clean the site himself, because there are tons of members able to report. Two wss I thought on reporting last night (but didn�t) are here at the reporting page now, so you may understand what I mean.
Someone told me some time ago that I shouldn�t try to be "more catholic than the Pope" and I thought about it and at the end I agreed with that person. Shouldn�t we pay more attention to the work done and the willing of sharing than to some details? Wouldn�t it be better to send the person a PM (or something) instead of reporting and reporting?
You see, I�m not against the rules and don�t want "to choose" the rules or the members to follow / pursue, or the like. But aren�t we going too far? Sorry for the long message, just sharing some thoughts..." |
9 Sep 2010
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MJ_Misa
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If you pay for images, they are not watermarked. In that case I cannot see reason why couldn �t you use it.
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9 Sep 2010
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lizsantiago
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the problem is that even though you pay for some clipart there are designers that have their especific rules on how to use them and when it comes to use them in sites like this some of them do not allow it because you are redistributing for free. |
9 Sep 2010
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EnioTigre
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Hi!!! I completely agree with Zaila`s opinion. I`m a new memeber and I have to recongnize that one of my ws was reported just because of one watermark. the problem is that as Zailda says "I`m not an artist" and I`m not that knowledgeable about computers. But I agree that the rules are necessary and this is a wonderful site...
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10 Sep 2010
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Bruna Dutra
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I believe it is everyone �s duty to check if they are allowed to use the art they are taking. I mean, it �s only fair that we should pay attention to the fact that some artists do not want their work being used without paying for it or being digitally redistributed at all.
That being said, I �m not an artist either (as most of us are teachers), but I do acknowledge the fact that if I don �t want my work to be used by someone else without my permission, I believe it �s fair from my part that I take a few minutes to check if I �m allowed to use someone else �s work too.
I make more wss to be used in class that I do not upload in here, because they contain parts that were not made entirely by me and I am allowed to do that (classroom use), but I �m not allowed to upload them to a website that contains a copyright notice to my work.
Most cliparts, if not all, which contain watermarks are forbidden to be used without payment, and also to be digitally redistributed (e.g. by uploading it in here). At least it �s what can be read in their TOU.
Some have signatures (like Phillip Martin �s), and they are allowed to be used providing that you keep the signature.
Regarding the fact about paying for something you �re allowed to use with restrictions, it �s in everyone �s will to do so. You purchase what you want; if you don �t agree to their terms, simply don �t buy it.
I �ll repeat myself as many times before this one: GO FOR PUBLIC DOMAIN CLIPART. They �re the safest choice, if you want to upload someone else �s stuff in here. Plus, there are thousands of free clipart (for free use of them). We just need to look a little more for them (which is only fair).
Hope to have helped a little in your doubt, because I believe that the no watermark rule is one of the fairest ones (I mean, fair to the ones who created them).
Regards,
Bruna.
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10 Sep 2010
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David Lisgo
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"the problem is that even though you pay for some clipart there are designers that have their especific rules on how to use them and when it comes to use them in sites like this some of them do not allow it because you are redistributing for free."
I use iclipart amongst others. It is true that I cannot upload the clipart to this site for redistrubition, but it is also true that I can create my own worksheets with such clipart and upload them here. I am not responsible should someone steal clipart from any of my worksheets, though I do, as some other members do, design my worksheets in such a manner that only the most determined thief will steal the clipart. You cannot just copy and paste or drag and drop from my worksheets.
It seems unethical to put a watermark onto any clipart that you have not created yourself. But a copyright mark on the worksheet is acceptable, though you want to be sure that the copyright name and the author � s name are the same otherwise you may find your worksheet reported.
Do we need a new rule or perhaps it is already here. How about this rule?
You are not allowed to use any content from another person� s worksheet without their specific permission.
Regards, David |
10 Sep 2010
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pilarmham
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My problem is.... I can pay the price (lucky me, I know) but then, how come I am not allowed to use the images I paid for (why would I want them, otherwise!!??)? And why should some worksheets be reported when thet are only intended for learning, not for personal profit??? |
10 Sep 2010
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pilarmham
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My problem is.... I can pay the price (lucky me, I know) but then, how come I am not allowed to use the images I paid for (why would I want them, otherwise!!??)? And why should some worksheets be reported when thet are only intended for learning, not for personal profit??? |
10 Sep 2010
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Bruna Dutra
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@ David. Actually, Manon and Victor told us that they �ve already received warnings from iclipart.com stating that their content is not allowed to be uploaded in here. But you brought up an interesting issue and maybe, like you said, there �s a way to be in the clear by uploading uneditable wss. If you do check that, please tell this to Victor and Manon, because she told us that she was already updating her wss so that there wouldn �t be any legal problems for Victor and the website.
@ Pilar. You simply have to abide to their rules if you choose to buy from this or that website, you can use their art work for many purposes, like classroom use, mass printing (up to a certain number, generally), personal website design, graphic design, etc. but you simple cannot upload their work for others to use it freely.
And even though we do not have a financial profit in here, many members redistribute art work that is originally intended for financial profit (for free and probably unintentionally, breaking their legal rights).
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10 Sep 2010
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David Lisgo
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Bruna,
I have just written to Iclipart to try and get some clarity on the matter, their "Terms of Use" is by no means clear to me.
If I receive a clear answer on my query as to whether or nor I can upload in the format I described, then I will post the answer hear. I did not specifically mention ESLPs to them.
David |
10 Sep 2010
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