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ESL forum >
Message board > about the frames/ borders
about the frames/ borders
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johnbrasil
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about the frames/ borders
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Hi, this is Roberta, I�ve never been so offended in my whole life. All
of my borders and I mean ALL of them were created from a single piece
of clip art, I went to many sites chose some cute pictures, put them
together to make a whole frame. I never copied them from any website. Now if you want me to put all the links for the pictures i use in
my frames and ws I�ll wait for you to put all the links you used for
yours first in every ws you�ve ever made. Who do you think you are to
judge and criticize who works more and which work is better. WHO DO YOU
THINK YOU ARE?? frenchfrog said that: "He
(Victor) chose to do something more challenging: to gather and share
ESL resources and in ESL, the E means ENGLISH!!!" You know, it�s
strange that her very own worksheets are full of cute graphics and
pictures, not saying that they aren�t nice, but the pictures she used
and everybody else uses don�t express anything about English either,
they are just pictures to make the ws more beautiful, nothing else.
Whats this then? What have this become? We have a minimum of written
part that we have to achieve in order to have some value in our
efforts? I posted some ws with frames here, frames that i built myself from small pictures
and people took them to put in their own ws, I thought it was nice
because they liked it, then i decided to make only frames so others could use. I�m not trying to justify myself because I don�t need too, just want to understand why people like to judge before knowing the real facts.
Ladybird did the favor of putting all of my frames and been ironic as if the time she spent with her worksheets were more valueble than the time I spent with mine, "It�s
even worse, because there are lots more � I simply got tired with
copying and pasting after a while, because there are so many
�worksheets� of that kind... Just take a look yourself!!! I have a
feeling that this member has received most of his/her points through
uploading a lot of frames". Whose problem is it if I�ve made many frames? Did I take your points? I don�t think so. If you don�t like them just don�t download them. And who told you I copied and past them? If you are soooo original with your ws and pictures, can you tell what software you use to create them all? Because if you all clame you are 100% original you must have one right?
You know, that�s was not nice of you at all, especially of some that had used the frames and then came here to this very topic to critisize, here I have an example, http://www.eslprintables.com/printable.asp?id=102126#thetop. I repeat that I�ve never been so offended, and I thought it was very rude of some of you to put nasty and poisoness comments in my work as if they were stolen or not woth using. So I ask again who do you think you are??
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9 Dec 2008
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Vickiii
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Hi Roberta,
We are people involved on an ESL printable sharing website. The website is for ESL materials. Materials that enable people to learn English. That suggests that the resources have a teaching purpose.
I think it is wonderful that you put together your own frames from pictures and it would be great if you did this along with some teaching ideas or material.
The thing is that this website is designed to share ESOL teaching materials. We also share links to pretty pictures and frames to enhance our teaching worksheets - the point people was making is that people are uploading all sorts of pictures and frames that are not teaching material - just pretty.
Teachers who are putting hours and hours into developing quality teaching materials are getting brassed off with seeing people get access to their material by cutting and pasting a pretty picture from a free site into this site.
I think it is fair enough that people want to keep the quality up. If people wanted to give their work away to everyone they would be part of a different website community. Teachers here want to share their teaching materials with other teachers who create their own material. It means that the quality of discussion is higher as well.
So people who read the rules and stick to them do dare to criticise. |
9 Dec 2008
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alien boy
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oh well, what a serious debate!
I agree that the frames are a resource that can be used with ESL. I believe that many people find them useful resources and that there may also have been a lot of time put into making them. So in my opinion then they are an ESL resource.
However, whether they are a resource that I find useful myself? No, I don�t find them useful. I find worksheets and powerpoints to be useful resources, not images for colouring in or borders.
I expect many others will (and already) have disagreement with my comment above about them being a resource. It is important to acknowledge where resources are from when you have used them without ownership (I personally own many thousands of pieces of clipart across several cd�s and dvd�s) and will acknowledge when I have used items from other websites which are not free for me to use without acknowledgement. I also have not been perfect but have removed those worksheets which were not correct in that regard.
Those people who post images or scans only (without acknowledgement) should really have their worksheets and points removed, and potentially suspended from the site for a while.
As far as policing quality of work on this site, that�s a difficult thing for me to agree with. The members should be self policing in regards to quality. As members gain more experience then the quality of their work will improve, so it�s ok if early sheets are poor. However, poor or irrelevant worksheets are less likely to be downloaded! Believe me, I know!!!!
Just a few cents worth for the ongoing debate!
Remember to have a Merry Christmas!
B-) |
9 Dec 2008
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johnbrasil
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�So people who read the rules and stick to them do dare to criticize.�
So we are going to see people proving that they have never taken a single graphic from any website to use to brighten up their worksheets? So which people stuck to the rules? I don�t think anyone has but there are a certain few that seem to be always abusing other people. As I said in another posting, I�ve yet to see the proof that anyone used a graphics package to create their own original artwork, 100% original. Like many people here in the forums, I�m of the same opinion that it�s only about points and really nothing else. People flaming in the forums to get a rise out of people. I have seen that some people are complaining about other people�s rudeness too, this is victor�s dream? Rude people flaming one another? I see here there is another person posting above about where the small graphics came from yet in all of her postings I don�t see one iota of evidence of the graphics package she used (And where did you get those pictures? Are you the one who created them). As someone else posted in another discussion, the forums seem to be just a few people who seem to only be here to say bad things about other people and then move on to someone else. I saw a guy giving a link to another website for people to post because he thought that it was getting out of control here. Some nasty minded person had this to say to about my wife -
Just take a look yourself!!!I saw another user (Sylvia) also complaining about people being rude (or was it the same person being rude?) - Of course it�s just an opinion, but I
would like to ask you not to ruin something that�s so useful and warm,
turning it into a battlefield. If you have something less nice to say
to someone, maybe you should use the private messages.
It seems to me and a growing number of other people that the forum is just a place for people to make nasty comments about people, under the pretense of being ironic or just nasty for the sake of it just to stir up people. Some people are also of a similar frame of mind as Alien Boy up above and messaged/mailed us about how useful they found them. I saw that some people had suggested a separate site for these sheets, but I am sure that these same people would quickly find someone else to abuse and be rude to. Eventually it wouldn�t be a site anymore but many fragmented ones, or is that what it�s really all about? People upset because they didn�t create something like this and want to drag it down? When people download something it is because they want to use it, as many people did with my wife�s sheets to use to create or enhance their own, or as people do on this site when they take graphics and files from other websites. They gave their point because they wanted to, they could have just as easily emailed Roberta to get one by mail with no points - but like I and many other people have said - it is only about points and a few people wanting all of the points for themselves and using the forum to bully people. I agree with others when they say that people are stopping uploading stuff, because they are scared of being targeted next :-(
We won�t reply to any other comments here on this page, after all the borders are only a small part of the sheets we have uploaded to this site and the others we run for our students. I�m sure the flamers will quickly find another person to pick on, if they haven�t already...
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9 Dec 2008
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alien boy
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Don�t get too worked up johnbrasil - often when someone gets really angry and don�t stop to think before posting/speaking/writing it is very easy to look more of a donkey than the people who upset you!
Actually, johnbrasil, several of the people I�m sure that you mean (but did not name) are excellent contributors, teachers and community members who are always willing to help someone when they can (for example, Vickiii, ladybird, French Frog and many, many others!).They are perturbed by the recent changes in the way the discussion forum is used and also in the amazing (seeming, as I don�t have any stats to back up the assertion) increase in relatively low quality and often plagiarised materials being uploaded to the site. By not acknowledging the source of materials (where appropriate) you (& I don�t mean you specifically, it�s a general �you�) are actually breaking laws pertaining to copyright! In other words, there is also an ethical component to right & wrong in uploading anything that is not properly referenced.
It is not necessary for someone to justify what they do by saying what software they use or providing proof of ownership for general clip art. When there are items scanned from books or downloaded from websites, then it certainly is a necessity to acknowledge this on your work - whether it be powerpoint, online exercise, worksheet or whatever!
I also feel that to �point the bone at someone� (an Aussie expression) you must be able to say that you, yourself, have not done the same thing! On that note, personally I have every confidence in the integrity of both Vickiii and ladybird. They are both very experienced, qualified and earnest individuals.
And remember, we�re not �playing for sheepstations� here! It is not a life or death situation, please don�t take things to heart. Always remember that whatever you think someone may mean, what you think they mean isn�t necessarily what they do mean!
And as the crew from Monty Python so aptly put it....
Always look on the bright side of life!!!!
B-) |
9 Dec 2008
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bow wow
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How about less talking and complaining and more creative work?
We need texts and exercises not just pretty pictures.
So for all the framers and clipart uploaders, if your upload doesn�t have any content, then most of us won�t buy it. So why waste your time.
This is the season to be jolly - tra la la la la la.
Happy (whatever holiday you are celebrating)Holidays to all. |
9 Dec 2008
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floris79
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I also dont get this discussion. On this site the great thing is that u only get points when other people download it. So thats self regulating in my idea. |
9 Dec 2008
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wolfy
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I missed this "debate", it seems it got a little out of hand. �I checked out the frames and borders, and they�re very nice, I wouldn�t use them myself but some people, judging by the downloads obviously do. �Some people here have mentioned that printing all the pics is a strain on their printer budget, so is there a problem of removing the frames and having them as a seperate download so people who want to add them can? �
I don�t think we should judge other peoples work, if you don�t like it don�t download it. �Look at Roberta�s top download, a christmas frame, and look at all the comments, just a few words about the comments... 109 people disagree with most of the comments.
An ESL resource can be almost anything. �What I find useful others will laugh at. �What others find useful might be of no use to me. �Judgment should be reserved by the number of downloads a ws has, therefore this last frame I judge to be very good, it has more downloads than any of mine :) |
9 Dec 2008
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