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ESL forum > Grammar and Linguistics > the garden gate but the plane ´s nose? - possessives    

the garden gate but the plane ´s nose? - possessives



colibrita
United Kingdom

the garden gate but the plane ´s nose? - possessives
 
My students often overuse the possessive, writing things like the garden ´s gate. How come that ´s incorrect while we CAN say the plane ´s nose?!!!

Thanks!

Colibrita

27 May 2009      





alien boy
Japan

Well, it ´s not really wrong depending on what you mean...

Now, a ´garden gate � is more like a type of gate. A gate that opens in a fence. The entry leads into a garden.

If you say ´a/the garden ´s gate � then you mean the gate belonging to/part of a specific garden.

You can say ´the nose of a/the plane � or the ´plane ´s nose � because it is the nose possessed by the plane.

I hope that makes some sort of sense...

27 May 2009     



ssrl10
Spain

Selection of the 騯 genitive can be described in relation to the gender classes represented by the noun which takes the 騯 suffix. The genitive is not used with all nouns equally but tends to be associated with those of animate gender, especially with those having personal reference. Although we can say either the youngest children´s toys or the toys of the youngest children, the two forms are not generally in free variation. We cannot say, for example, the *roof´s cost or *the hat of John. Thus, nouns denoting persons, whether proper names or ordinary count nouns, can always take the inflected genitive. It can also be used with animals. The rule of the thumb here is that the higher animals are more likely to have the 騯 genitive than the lower animals.

The following four animate classes normally take the genitive:

Personal names: Washington´s statue, Segovia´s pupil, Gonzalez´s speech.

Personal nouns: the boy´s new shirt, My mother´s necklace, my sister-in-law´s pen.

Animal nouns (specially higher animals): the horse´s neck, the farm dog´s bark, the lion´s tail, the tiguer´s stripes.

Collective nouns (organizations): the committee´s decision, the nation´s resources.

The inflected genitive is also used with certain kinds of inanimate nouns:

Geographical names: especially if followed by a superlative adjective, with only and with general ordinals. E.g: the world´s best universities, The country´s only university, African´s first art festival (taken to mean a group of people).

More generally, genitive combines with them to express a relative clause meaning: The Cabinet´s greatest mistake (=the greatest mistake the cabinet made); Europe´s future; Harvard´s department of linguistics.

Locative nouns: locative nouns denote regions, heavenly bodies, institutions, etc They can be very similar to geographical names, and are often written with initial capital letters. E.g: the Earth´s interior, the Church´s mission, the hotel´s ent, the nation´s chief, a country´s population, the school´s history.

Temporal measure and value names: A week´s holiday; At four hundred yard´s distance; a day´s work; a moment´s thought

Nouns of special relevance to human activity: In freedom´s name; duty´s call, the poll´s result; television´s future; my life´s aim; in freedom´s name; love´s spirit.

So, it could be said that the possessive case is chiefly used with people, countries or animals, as shown above, but it can also be used:

Of ships and boats: the ship´s bell, the yatch´s mast.

Of planes, trains, cars and other vehicles, though here the 鰂f-construction� is safer. E.g: A glider´s wing / the wings of a glider.

In time expressions: a week´s holiday, in two year´s time, ten minutes´break.

In expressions with money + worth: then dollars´worth of ice-cream.

For + noun + shake: for heaven´s shake.

In a few expressions, such as: a stone´s throw, journey´s end, water´s edge.

 We can say either 鬭 winter´s day� or a winter day and a 鷔ummer´s day� or 鬭 summer day�, but we cannot make spring or autumn possessive.

 

 

27 May 2009     



Lana.
Ireland

Alien boy,  thanks for the explanations, I ´ve been meaning to ask the same thing for ages, it slipped my mind many times...
 
Are there any websites with EXERCISES on this?
If you know any, please, let know, I want to give some to my students.
 
Thanks! :)

27 May 2009     



colibrita
United Kingdom

You know Alienboy I hadn ´t really thought of it like that. Thank you!

And thanks for all that info ssrl10, very very useful! Big smile


(C ´mon Barca! you can do it!)

27 May 2009     



[email protected]
United States

I agree with Alien Boy.
 
To write in Possesive Form: (belonging to)
 
Here is a simple explaination:
 
Use an apostrophe and -s to form most singular nouns
 
Leo ´s cat            Dr. Smith ´s office     The school ´s exit route
 
If it ends in a "s" or "z" sound you can just add the apostrophe.
 
Use the apostophe at the end of a plural noun no -s
 
classes � game       teachers � lounge        students � homework
 
But stating:
 
the cat of Leo  the office of Dr Smith   The exit route of the school
 
is also correct.
 
If you had actual complete sentences we might be able to help more.
 
I ´m not sure what ssrl10 is really stating...nouns don ´t have gender in English except for word relating to things that are actually male or female.
 
If your students can state the gate of the garden correctly in their sentence then they can use the possessive form, if not, than no apostophe -s
 
I think I might just make a worksheet on this for you as soon as I can figure out a good way of going about it.

5 Jun 2009