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> What is an author? And WHO ARE YOU, nhatjulian?
What is an author? And WHO ARE YOU, nhatjulian?
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domnitza
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I am not accusing nhatjulian of stealing, indeed, but of being too lazy to open a new doc. Dona, he is not an admirer, I am sure, there is noting to admire in 2 columns and a word art title. |
4 Aug 2009
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donapeter
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NOO...not that , you are for him the recipe for success. The points you have made are based on such thing...so....he thought that �t the idea!!!1
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4 Aug 2009
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goodnesses
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I really don �t see where particularity resides in the WS in question. They include things that anyone can find and use in MSWord.
I think, we don �t have the right to assume here. We are daeling with people �s work. It is not fair to cause someone �s works to be deleted just because we assumed it is copied or stolen from another member without giving concrete evidence.
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4 Aug 2009
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zailda
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The site is improving day by day and getting better in my opinion. I don �t want this site changing in one like many others. This site is unique and what makes it unique is the ORIGINAL WORK of many members here. For this reason I don �t expect to see the work not original here. If we use pictures taken from the net, it takes us hours searching the right picture to match to a particular exercise. Or we prepare a pictionary collecting tons of pics related to a topic and insert them in a way to be eyecatching for our students. If we have a grammar topic to work on, sometimes we spend hours looking for the right text or lyrics to go together.
If many of us spend so much time trying to do our best, it �s not fair that someone just take our work without permission and just use it, changing the way s/he wants and repost it as his/hers. It �s not fair to copy a list from a book or website and post here as "yours". It �s not fair to post something without clear instructions what sounds to me like "suit yourself, do what you want".
Common sense is something some people don �t have in common with the majority here. "Be nice and ask first" must have been taught when we were kids, mustn �t it? Is it possible that besides providing members with useful tutorials (they are here, just download it and... abracadabra! you �ll be able to do what seems almost impossible!) we�ll have to teach good manners as well? Is is possible that teachers, who always teach their students to ask before using someone �s belongings (as I assume they do) have to be taught about so obvious behavior?
For me a name in the proporties of a document is a proof enough that this document was made by that person, isn �t it? Is it possible that an AUTHOR isn �t capable of recognizing his/her OWN WORK? I don �t think so. I �m sure that each one of us is able to recognize his/her own wss among thousands of them.
For this reason, if a member reports a ws as stolen from him/her and - in addition - I can clearly see his/her name in the ws properties, IT IS STOLEN. Stealing is stealing. Do you know someone that "more or less" stole something? Or is stealing a part of a whole different from stealing everything? If you steal a piece of cake, are you "less thief" than who steals the whole cake?
Cheers
Zailda Coirano
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4 Aug 2009
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goodnesses
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Still I did not get the answer to my question. So, If you don �t mind I repeat it here, since I can �t make it through a link.
What if we have 2 WS completely different in content (and layout) made by 2 different members but the 2 WS carry the same name in their properties?
(because one of them just started his from a "blanked" document he had already opened.)
How shall we consider them? Copies? Stolen? What?
If it is not the case, I mean not stolen and not copied, they should not be reported.
Victor gave us an example of 2 WS which were identical in content, layout, and author name.
According to me, what should make us decide if the WS is stolen or copied is as follows:
-Content + Layout + Author Name = Stolen/Copied
-Content + layout = Stolen/Copied
-Content = Stolen/Copied
-Layout (when it is really specific not made fron the standards tools of MS-Office) = Stolen/Copied
-Content + Author Name = Stolen/Copied
-Layout (when it is really specific not made fron the standards tools of MS-Office) + Author Name = Stolen/Copied
-Author name (In doc properties) = NOT stolen/Copied. (It is not enough)
Remember Domnitza said it herself that she is not accusing any one and especially the concerned person of stealing.
Sorry for the edition I don´t want to use more space than necessary.
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4 Aug 2009
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zailda
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Goodnesses
You asked us to tell what is copied and what is not, I gave mine: anything from 1% to 100% used without permission I CONSIDER TO BE STOLEN IF THE AUTHOR REPORTS IT. Of course, if the other member asks AND THE OWNER GIVES PERMISSION, I have nothing against. To steal means to take without permission. It �s my opinon. And you gave yours. Each one at the reporting page votes according to his/her own convictions on what is stolen or not. Sorry, but we are all different and must have different opinions. And I don �t agree with the chart you so kindly put on the board for us.
Cheers
Zailda Coirano
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4 Aug 2009
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goodnesses
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Dear zailda.
I don �t know why you always take my intervention as meant to disturb or I don´t know what. You like it or not, my only purpose here is to improve and protect the site as well as the honest people �s work.
We are humans and more over teachers. We are not machines programmed to do thing repeatedly without any thinking.
It happens to me very often. I am viewing a WS I downloaded from here when I decide to start a new document either to upload here or for personal use. What I do and it has nothing to do with lazyness, is to blank the document I am viewing and start typing mine. Sure when I save this document it will keep the properties of the original. Now, will you concider this new document, I have spent sometimes hours to make, as stolen or copied from the first one.
Another thing I often do, I double click the first Doc I come across in my explorer to start a new Doc(it may be mine as it may someone else) . Here lazyness has something to do. Because I don´t like this mechanical action: START --> ALL PROGRAMMS --> MICROSOFT PROGRAMS --> WORD --> NEW
You said some time ago that you have thousands of WS (you have made yourself) on your PC. Do you guarantee that all of them have exactly the same author name in their propertties. How many times have re-installed the system on your PC during all these year. Or better, how many PC have used to make your own WS/docs so far?
Now what Domnitza said is that if it were a question of one WS carrying the same name as hers it would not be a problem. But she remarked that it is always the same person and always her WS. In her place also I would be the least I say curious to now.
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4 Aug 2009
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zailda
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Goodnesses:
I don �t take your interventions as meant to disturb, I was merely answering again your question, which I had alread responsed when you asked it again. Sure I like when you come here to defend other people �s hard work. Why shouldn �t I approve it? You like it or not, I have the same purpose here.
She said that she wouldn �t claim his ws as stolen, but someone already did. As you see, some other members have the same opinion as mine and they also have the purpose to improve the site and help others, don �t you think so?
I don �t want to change this in a personal matter, so you can say anything or ask anything else. If what you wanted was a reply, you already had it - if you like or not. If you �ll keep asking again for it, I won �t reply again, since every time I reply one of your posts you take it personally and as a signal to start an argument.
We are teachers and we have to learn how to respect people who have different opinons and points of view, isn �t it true? Our students are all different and have different necessities and as teachers we have to learn the best approach for any of them. So it �s not to be different here. For me and for many here (judging from the number of posts we both participate) it �s clear that even if we have the same interests and purposes, we have different points of view, and I �ll respect yours if you respect mine. Do we have a deal?
Zailda Coirano
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4 Aug 2009
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goodnesses
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I never said that your opinion about stealing or copying others work is not right.
Don �t take it for personal or an offend. I did not wait for you or anybody else to give me lessons about what a teacher should and should not be.
Isn �t it you who said that we aren �t here to give lessons to each other.
I am respectful towards all the members here. However, it is my right to try to understand and more important to try to get convinced.
This issue is also within the limits of exaggeration.
I can �t sweep someone �s work so easily just because the doc contains the name which is not his/hers.
Another thing if you want to make an experience. I am sure you have haunderds of WS you downloaded from here. Take a number of them (20 or 30) if you have time of course. Open them and see that famous author name. See how many of them have the name "user" or its equivalent in other languages. Last time, I downloaded more than 15 just to check this thing. More than 8 or 9 (+50%) had this as author �s name. Does this mean that all these WS are stolen or copied? It is up to you to give the answer.
I won �t add anything now. Because it is really turning to personal.
Take care. |
5 Aug 2009
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moravc
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In this case, I wouldn �t report it, but I would PM nhatjulian and I would inform him firmly it is not ok to use other �s worksheet as a template WITHOUT permission...
I would ask him to use a BLANK document for his wss...
If he ignored me, I would write him EVERY time he uploads somebody else �s "layout" ws.
I think he would get bored after a few days and start to create his own layouts...
There are hundreds of borders, he can google them easily...
Maybe I would send him some...
When we have a look at the wss at eslprintables, some layouts are very simple - 2 or 4 or 6 textboxes + cliparts.
Those wss are very similar BUT I believe all were made by their authors...
That makes the difference... We can be inspired, but we shouldn �t copy design exactly...
and, if we are inspired by something special, it is always polite to give a link to the "inspiring" ws at least... It won �t do any harm...
We are no comp experts, but I think all of us are able to complete a new layout within 3 minutes. I think nhatjulian should give it a try...
There are even artists who draw pictures and borders in Word and share them at eslprintables. Those borders and pics must not be taken without permission for sure...
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5 Aug 2009
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