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ESL forum >
Ask for help > Can anyone help me??
Can anyone help me??
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Zora
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Thank you Jayho for your explanation and link.
That is exactly what I was trying to convey last night but couldn �t find a link - too tired I guess. It was after two when I went to bed!
But yes, she is correct.  Things can be implied... There is also something called a Null Comparative - used in Advertising that doesn �t mention the thing being compared at times... like:
It is better here!
We offer you more comfort!
Our prices are lower!
Perfectly acceptable English...
And NN �s have got to please stop assuming that us N do not know what we are talking about. We also went to school - just like you did. And we learnt grammar too, and these things are taught to us... Many N may not know the reason behind the grammar but please remember that we are teaching English. We are not uncultured people that do not know how to spell or use grammar tenses correctly that are just teaching conversation to pick up a few bucks here and there!!
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11 Aug 2009
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Jayho
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Hear hear!
And yes, NNS, it can be quite disillusioning for a NS to be told by a NNS that they do not know how to use their own native language. If you don�t live in the same area as the contributor to this forum how can you say that they are wrong? You are making assumptions and if you know English you will know the real meaning of �ASSUME�. English isn�t the same everywhere irrespective of the rules. At the end of the day it�s communication that counts, not grammar rules. |
11 Aug 2009
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HARIM
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I think being a native isn �t a reason to know-it-all ,and being a non native isn �t a sign of weekness but generalizing is a blind escape.Forget about our relation to the target language and let �s start calling ourselves ESL teachers and not Ns and NNs.
For this sentence,we need no fluency,no grammar,no syntax no semantics;but we need pragmatics and advertising doesn �t abide by any such rules.The sentence is taken from a narrative passage and the rules of pragmatics apply strictly to narration.Null comparatives are never used in narration.
.....All the other cars are older like mine.This is 100% a typo.
Older than what? than the car we saw before,than the teacher´s car,than all the cars in the world,than all the cars in this city (which is impossible).Let reason illuminates your way and discard phanaticism.We are brothers and sisters after all and we are here to give and get. |
11 Aug 2009
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**********
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Good point, Harim, when you state this difference between narrative and advertising; besides, advertising usually uses null comparatives, because null comparatives are extensively used in fallacies like, for instance, an advertisement on a new razor: the woman (in reduced clothes - another null comparison? - fallacy?) comes behind the guy and tells him:
- X brand feels better �
In this case, the first term of comparison (other razors? other brands? shavers?) is inferred, creating a deliberate sense of vagueness. The initial example here has nothing to do with such situations.
More funny and peculiar stuff in Twilight:
Edward asked under his breath, to low for the human woman to hear.
dust moats stirring in the sunlight. (Is there a castle?)
It �s always sunny, and the umidity really isn �t that bad.
And more: eaven, instead of Heaven (what are hhhs for, anyway?) relived instead of relieved; and vampires that change your DNA with a bite�  Watch your back! |
11 Aug 2009
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Spagman63
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We are brothers and sisters after all and we are here to give and get.
Harim, I �m not your brother. I came from Japheth. :) Also, I had NO intention of pointing a GUN at you. I was merely pointing out that native English speakers understand this to be an implied comparison. Jayho was using the initials to not have to type the full terms each time. I think someone is a little sensitive.
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11 Aug 2009
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kaz76
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I don �t think this sentence has a typo - I thought it was quite clear that the car was being compared to all the other cars in the line of traffic.
I drove around the school, following the line of traffic. I was glad to see that most of the cars were older like mine |
11 Aug 2009
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Zora
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Thank you! Another person who agrees with us!!
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11 Aug 2009
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Jayho
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Ummm - excuse me ... brothers and sisters??? Another assumption on your part???
BTW, if you don�t get it, the meaning that is, then so be it. Just because one has studied a language does not mean they are proficient in it. Often one learns proficiency through cultural experiences, usually through living in an English speaking country. At the end of the day it�s about communication and not grammar. The second sentence is perfectly acceptable and accurate and this has been confirmed by several NS contributors. If you can�t accept that then so be it. I must say, there are some ESLprintable members that need to get down off their high horse and look at it from a different point of view for a change because there is more than one way to skin a cat.
"Arguments over grammar and style are often as fierce as those over IBM versus Mac, and as fruitless as Coke versus Pepsi and boxers versus briefs" - Jack Lynch |
12 Aug 2009
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douglas
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I agree with Linda, Jayho, and Spagman and I LOVE Jayho �s quote.
And please don�t try to turn my language into a cut and dry, boring machine that leaves no room for expressing the human soul, showing creativity, and allowing for individuality. Please let it be what it is supposed to be, a way to communicate our thoughts and feelings to others so they can try to see the world the way we do.
Most of the better ( ) authors break most grammar rules regularly--we call it art and creativity. Turn your own language into a dried-out machine, let mine bloom. |
12 Aug 2009
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**********
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Life is too precious to be squandered in an embittered world: let�s not turn ourselves into tuners of silence, Douglas. |
12 Aug 2009
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