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Message board > no grammar
no grammar
celia86
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no grammar
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hi everyone!
I was surfing the net and I came across this quite interesting site, and I wanted to share it with you
Its really interesting! I also think that grammar is useless for learning to speak fluently...what do you think?
kisses
Celia |
11 Aug 2009
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**********
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Well, dear Celia, I �d say that those arguments of "natural learning", based on Rousseau�s thoughts on education, though rather appealing and much in fashion some 2/3 decades ago, proved to be disastrous in Education. Grammar can essentially be defined as a set of rules that regulate spoken and written language that we really must follow if others who use the same language are to have an opportunity to appropriately understand what we �re saying. So, I wouldn�t give much credit to such �innovations�. It is a fact that rules don�t provide much fluency in the �real world�, but knowing them makes it easier to break them, which can be both fun and creative. Have a wonderful day. |
11 Aug 2009
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JudyHalevi
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Sorry Nikadixon, I must disagree. A child when learning a language, does not know grammar, he copies what he hears.
I teach grammar, because at school this is the way the language is taught, but with my private students, we learn in English by discussion, reading, listening and just plain speaking, speaking, speaking. I have had amazing results.
Grammar just makes students work hard to learn nothing.
Judy |
11 Aug 2009
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urpillay
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Hi Celia,
Sorry but I don �t agree with you. You have openeded a topic which has been controversial for decades. In the eighties, it was said by Chomsky, Krashen (developer of the natural approach) and others that the learning of a language should be like a child �s natural acquisition, I mean, when we start speaking our mother tongue, we don �t think of grammar rules. However, it has been also documented that teaching grammar step by step has had little effect in speaking production, that is, many people who have study English learning grammatical rules, can �t communicate effectively. We are not allowed to teach English to children because there is an age, until nine years old more or less, in which the acquisition of a language is easier, but does it work with adults?
In the nineties another approach appeared, the communicative one, which made emphasis on authentic materials instead of traditional textbooks. Besides, this approach emphasizes Pragmatics (negotiation of meaning, social context, interaction...), cooperative learning strategies, etc., and grammar is an important part but it is learned into a context, not explaining grammatical rules. However, this approach is neither perfect since it has been documented that it only works until the intermediate level.
There is not a "perfect method" for teaching or studying a foreign language, however, I think it is very important to give our students as many opportunities as we can to use the new language but without avoiding grammar all time since different people have different learning styles at different times. Therefore, why not to use the best of each approach or method to engage our students?
INMA ALC�ZAR
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11 Aug 2009
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miss K.
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Grammar maybe especialy useful to teaching adults. it �s sort of a skeleton but skeleton doesn �t look attractive! So lots of things have to be added. |
11 Aug 2009
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JudyHalevi
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Miss K. to the contrary. Adults like children, learn from listening and speaking. Maximilian Berlitz taught English, French, German, etc., like that more than 130 years ago. It still works. Unfortunately, here in Israel we have many Russian English teachers who have a perfect command of the grammar of English and are unable to speak the language. This has given my kids endless pleasure in torturing these teachers as we speak English at home.
Both Adults and children learn by copying. Grammar is taught because ...., I don �t know why. A perfect example is my children who speak English perfectly and have no idea what the perfect tenses are. They were born in Israel.
Regards and hugs from Israel.
Judy |
11 Aug 2009
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Ms. Fadia
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Hi every body ,
I must say that teaching intensive grammar won �t make students speak fluently. It will make pass grammar tests and get good marks , but when it comes to speaking , they will hesitate and try to look for the right grammar to use. As a result , they will get confused. I teach 3rd grade ss . I encourage them to speak without worrying about grammar , as long as communication takes place , it is okay.
Fadia |
11 Aug 2009
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Jayho
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I agree with Urpillay. The area of second language acquisition has been the subject of extensive research. A second language can be learned and the extent of this learning will vary from one learner to another. Yori�s classification of learner variables provides a detailed list of factors for exploring SLA. Proposed in 1976 these variables remain applicable today. He proposed six main factors: age, cognition, native language, input, affective domain and educational background. He further classified each of these resulting in many areas of inquiry. Each has an impact on SLA; the extent of the impact will vary among learners. Ideally, an effective teacher will be aware of these factors, how they interrelate, their impact on individual learners, and how they can assist learners to apply their learning beyond that of the classroom. There is no single way of teaching or learning. |
11 Aug 2009
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**********
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On the contrary, dear Judy, neuroscience has proved that children and adults activate different areas of the brain, when they are learning a foreign language. |
11 Aug 2009
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JudyHalevi
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130 years of Berlitz success proves that grammar is not that important. Speaking is.
Judy |
11 Aug 2009
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Jayho
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Hear hear Judy. Communication is what counts, not grammar. Sure, grammar will work for some, but on the other hand there are many proficient speakers of English who are hopeless at grammar. That is why our teaching methods should recognise that there is more than one way to learn/teach English. I find that my international adult students think that they are not learning English unless they are doing endless grammar worksheets ... it is so sad that they have been educated to think that way. And yes, they can do the worksheets but they simply can �t apply it to real life English in an English speaking country. Grammar is not the be all and end all. |
11 Aug 2009
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