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ESL forum >
Message board > what is your comment about native speakers ?
what is your comment about native speakers ?
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Samantha.esl
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I still would like to know what does it mean that non natives "speak like a grammar book."
Native speakers think we (non native speakers) speak like a grammar book!? I find it a little derogatory and pjorative..:
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24 Nov 2009
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Spagman63
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Altan,
In England, they would give you a giant wooden spoon and call you a "stirrer". lol You really like to open cans of worms. 
Having taught in Asia for over eight years, I can see that the best type of teacher here is one who is bilingual in that language. There are many Chinese here who were raised in America, Canada, England, NZ or Australia and do an excellent job. The same goes for Korea. I am often at a lost in teaching the beginners simply because neither of us has enough vocabulary to communicate efficiently. Once I learned a few phrases in Korean, it was much easier for me to teach the kids. The same goes for here in Hong Kong. I am deficient in Cantonese but it doesn �t make me a bad English teacher, just not as effective.
The problem with non-natives is their syntax and pronunciation are often that of their native language. The Chinese speak English with the British vowels but they put a Cantonese spin on them. It is often hard to understand them even though I lived in England for six years.
I�ve also had non-native teachers... they
understand my doubts better because they know the mistakes that a
Spanish native speaker makes.
Good point, Julieta!
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24 Nov 2009
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mariamit
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Personally, I think a good teacher has more to do with attitude and training than with native language. I agree with Silke and Mena, it�s the effort you put into it. I am a native speaker and bilingual (English and Greek) since birth. Would I be able to teach Greek? I doubt it. I haven�t been trained for it. To me teaching is not something anyone can do. Speaking a language doesn�t automatically mean you can teach it. Of course, native speakers do have an advantage. The flow of the language is easier, they are likely to make fewer mistakes in pronunciation and intonation, their usage is usually superior to non natives etc, etc, etc. This doesn�t mean they don�t make mistakes. I think a good teacher is an accredited teacher trained in teaching to students who are not natives. There are many pedagogical and didactic issues to consider. It can be a discussion that goes on and on� |
24 Nov 2009
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alien boy
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Hi Sam!
There are quite a few different views on what constitutes grammar. In a simplified linguistics perspective there are 2 general types - prescriptive (grammar rules & books) & descriptive (how the language is actually used). So LB is saying that native English speakers are 100% correct if you delve into �descriptive grammars � as distinct from speaking according to �prescriptive grammar � rules.
The history of formalised English is such that many of the designated/accepted rules of prescriptive grammar actually come from other languages (e.g. Latin, Greek & French) whereas English is not actually these languages, even if it has been heavily influenced by them during its ongoing development. It would seem to many native speakers that these �prescriptive grammar � rules don �t actually reflect either the historically or contemporary correct/common usage of English.
Regards,
AB |
24 Nov 2009
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Zora
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OMG... This is still going on!
Well, for my two cents. Being a good teacher has nothing to do with "being an accredited" or certified "teacher". I studied Business but I ended up teaching English. Does that make me less of a good teacher?? I think not. I love grammar, was always good at, have learned more because of self-interest and my job. I refuse to answer "because it is that way"...
A good teacher - native or non - is one with passion, who is curious and wants to share. It has little to do with studies, if they are Native speakers, etc... THAT is being elitist!! I know great teachers who haven �t studied to be "teachers" and their students are doing wonderfully.
As I said before and at the beginning of this topic: It is the "schools" fault. Natives are great for communication, gaining vocabulary, etc... but throwing a non-bilingual native into a grammar structured teaching situation is like telling a music student to direct an orchestra!!
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24 Nov 2009
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Jayho
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It �s an interesting discussion Altan and, as with everything, there are advantages and disadvantages of NS and NNS teachers.
I think that it is also important to consider the goals and aspirations of the students. For example, do they intend to travel in an English speaking country? Perhaps emigrate? Do they need English for their job so that they can communicate with business partners from English speaking countries? Do they have relatives that only speak English? What do the students (or their parents) want?
All these factors, and many more, have an impact. Members have raised many valid points and there is no one ideal solution.
I teach in an English speaking country so my situation is different to that of many others. However, what I can say is that half of our staff are NS and the other half are NNS that are also permanent residents/citizens. Some of these colleagues have resided here for donkey�s years and still don �t understand many idioms and colloquialisms yet they offer an aspect that a NS can not. It provides for a healthy balance and I think this is what is important. That way, students can glean the best from both worlds.
Cheers
Jayho |
24 Nov 2009
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