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Ask for help > help with the use of "and" to join adjectives before nouns
help with the use of "and" to join adjectives before nouns
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yolprica
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help with the use of "and" to join adjectives before nouns
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What should we say? She �s got beautiful, long, dark hair, or She �s got beautiful, long and dark hair. I have never used "and" but I have seen it used here in a post which a native speaker sent and I have started to doubt.
Thanks in advance for your help
Yolanda
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14 Jun 2010
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imanito
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Hello Yolanda!
I believe that the use of "and" in this context is incorrect. You should say "She has got a beautiful long dark hair" because you are describing the person �s hair and you are not adding any other noun. if you said for example "she has got deautiful eyes and a long dark hair" in this case you could use "and" because you are describing two different things which are nouns. but your sentence contains a sequence of descriptive adjectives which are used to describe the hair only so use "and."
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14 Jun 2010
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libertybelle
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I think the order sounds wrong Yolanda.
I think it should say
She �s got long, dark beautiful hair.
Adjectives come in the following order:
Opinion
size
age
shape
color
origin
material
Purpose
an example:
A young, energetic woman.
You wouldn �t say he is handsome and dark -
you �d say he is dark and handsome.
You can google for more information by writing order of adjectives in english
or go here.
http://web2.uvcs.uvic.ca/elc/studyzone/410/grammar/adjord.htm
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14 Jun 2010
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imanito
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hello libertybelle! I am afraid you didn �t pay attention to the little mistake you have made.
It �s "beautiful long dark hair " opinion should be first as you said and "beautiful" is an opinion
so: opinion - size - color beautiful - long - dark
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15 Jun 2010
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lshorton99
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I agree with imanito in that beautiful can be considered an opinion and should come first. I would mention that we can �t say �a beautiful long dark hair � unless she only has one hair!!!!! Otherwise �hair � is uncountable. Of course, perhaps �beautiful � being an opinion is also an opinion, in which case libertybelle is correct! We do, after all, say �tall dark and handsome �!
This link seems to suggest that �beautiful � counts as an opinion:
http://www.learn4good.com/languages/evrd_grammar/adjective_order.htm
�And � as a conjunction doesn �t work so the sentence would be �She �s got beautiful long dark hair � or, as imanito correctly suggested, �She �s got beautiful eyes and long dark hair �. We use and to link items in a list but not adjectives in this way as the actual �item � in this case is hair. You could say �The variety of colours were amazing - one had red hair, another blonde and the last had beautiful long dark hair. �
Hope I �ve contributed to the discussion suitably!
Lindsey
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15 Jun 2010
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Salva1964
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Hi Yolanda
The right answer is She has got a beautiful long dark hair |
15 Jun 2010
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tw_karen
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Well, I have always felt that spoken English and written English are two very different languages. When we write, there are so many rules and as teachers, we teach the rules. When we speak, we often forget those rules especially in "casual" conversation.
If it was in a "post" and not a worksheet, perhaps the person was not paying attention to proper grammar. She probably felt at ease and was just writing casually.
If this is the case, as a native speaker, I would say both sound fine in SPOKEN English.
That is just my humble opinion.
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15 Jun 2010
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dturner
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Sorry Salva, your �s is certainly not correct. As Lindsey said, does she have only one hair. I personally like beautiful at the front of the three adjectives. The three syllables followed by two more seem to give balance to my ears. But you know, it really doesn �t sound bad the other way either, (even though it is incorrect according to the rules) She �s got long, dark beautiful hair. Maybe not as good as..... She has (I would use has instead of got) beautiful, long dark hair.
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15 Jun 2010
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sp.watson
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Such an interesting discussion! I was trying to explain this to students just a few days ago and I have to admit that there doesn �t seem to be much logic in having rules for adjectival order.However, as a native speaker it is definitely one of those situations where, even though most of us don �t know the rules, we instinctively know what sounds correct! To summarise my understanding:
1. Adjectives stacked before a noun do not need "and" e.g. "she had beautiful, long, dark hair"
2. Adjectives placed after the noun do need "and" e.g "her hair was beautiful, long and dark"
3. Adjectival order does matter if you wish to sound natural and although there is some flexibility, sometimes it just sounds wrong! e.g "the brown, quick fox" (wrong) as opposed to the "quick, brown fox" (correct)
Hope that helps! |
15 Jun 2010
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PMaryAnn
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It is an interesting discussion isn�t it!
I totally agree with sp.watson about the order being important for sounding natural. It isn�t always easy because as Lindsey has already said, �He�s tall, dark and handsome�, doesn�t follow these �rules�.
We do use and when we double up on the same type of adjective. For example,
�She�s got amazing, black and red hair�
but Yolanda, you might say your second sentence,
�She �s got beautiful, long and dark hair�
if we were stressing that her her is dark - that we particularly like dark hair, or if it was an afterthought. Of course, being an afterthought, you could add any adjective out of sequence,
�She�s got beautiful, long, dark and luscious hair.�
But this is an exception to the rule and not the norm.
English! Don�t we just love it!
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15 Jun 2010
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