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ESL forum > Grammar and Linguistics > Re: explanation    

Re: explanation



class centre
Belarus

Re: explanation
 
Hi, friends! let�s all calm down and stop that childish discussion,please. people are imperfect, you know. Just forgive them...
I need to explain to my students all cases of using SO ( exept so and such). I mean SO THAT, SO AS and so on...

Where could I find such material, does anybody know?

Thanks in advance.
Natasha

9 Dec 2008      





Damielle
Argentina

Isn�t what you need here??
 
 

9 Dec 2008     



class centre
Belarus

thanks a lot!

10 Dec 2008     



Pietro
United States

Well, one thing I once learned was:

so as = the doer is the same as in the main clause

so that = the doers are different

Hope it will help somehow))

10 Dec 2008     



goodnesses
Algeria

Hi, Pietro

First, isn�t it "so as to" / "so as not to"?
Then about same or different doer would have a look at this:

A---------------

So...that;so...asto
We can use so followed by an adjective or an adverb and a that-clause in sentences such as:
� The recipe was so simple that even I could cook it. (= because the recipe was so simple, even
I could cook it)
� He was walking so slowly that before too long we caught him up. (= because he was
walking so slowly...)

Less commonly we use so followed by an adjective and as to with a similar meaning:
� The difference was so small as to not be worth arguing about. (= because the difference was
so small, it wasn�t worth arguing about)

B-----------------------

In order / so as + to-infinitive
To talk about the PURPOSE of something we can use in order / so as + to-infinitive:
� He took the course in order to get a better job.
� Trees are being planted by the roadside so as to reduce traffic noise.

In spoken English in particular it is much more common simply to use a to-infinitive without �in
order� or �so as� to express the same meaning:
� He took the course to get a better job.

To make a negative sentence with in order / so as + to-infinitive, we put not before the to-infinitive:
� He kept the speech vague in order not to commit himself to one side or the other.
� The land was bought quickly so as not to delay the building work.

You can�t use a negative if you use only a to-infinitive:
� I carried the knife carefully in order / so as not to cut myself, (not ...carefully not to cut...)

However, compare negative sentences with in order / so as / to-infinitive + but:
� I came to see you not (in order / so as) to complain, but (in order /so as) to apologise.

C---------------------

In order that and so that
We also use in order that and so that to talk about PURPOSE. Compare:
� She stayed at work late in order / so as to complete the report, and
� She stayed at work late in order that / so that she could complete the report.

So that is more common than in order that, and is used in less formal situations.
Study these examples. Notice in particular the verbs and tenses:
� Advice is given in order that / so that students can choose the best courses.
� Did you give up your job in order that / so that you could take care of your mother?
� She bid the present in order that / so that the children wouldn�t find it.

Cambridge English Advanced Grammar In Use

10 Dec 2008     



Pietro
United States

Hi,�goodnesses!

Yes, that�s right, thanks for nice examples! That�s just the thing I was talking about:

Subordinators of adverbial clauses of purpose "so that; in order that" and "so as to; in order to" are used a bit differently: mind that "so as to" and "in order to" are considered subordinators of non-finite clauses, while "so (that)" and "in order that" are subordinators of finite clauses.

SO THAT =IN ORDER THAT

She bid the present in order that / so that the children wouldn�t find it. = She bid the present, the children wouldn�t find it now.

Advice is given in order that / so that students can choose the best courses. = Advice is given to the students, the students can choose the best courses now.

SO AS to = IN ORDER to

He took the course in order to get a better job. = He took the course, he wanted to get a better job.

He took the course to get a better job. =He took the course, he wanted to get a better job.

He kept the speech vague in order not to commit himself to one side or the other. = He kept the speech vague, he didn�t want to commit himself to one side or the other.

I carried the knife carefully in order / so as not to cut myself. = I carried the knife carefully, I didn�t want to cut myself.

Mind also: The subordinators "so as" and "in order that" can be omitted, whereas "so that" and "in order that" cannot.

I came to see you not (in order / so as) to complain, but (in order /so as) to apologise. = I came to see you, I didn�t want to complain, I wanted to apologise.

She stayed at work late in order / so as to complete the report. = She stayed at work late, she wanted to complete a report.

BUT: She stayed at work late in order that / so that she (the subject is repeated after "in order that" in this case) could complete the report. =�She stayed at work late, she wanted to complete a report.

Though care should be taken when the passive is used, but the sentence becomes clear when the implied �they� is used in the recinstructed sentence with the active.

The land was bought quickly so as not to delay the building work. = They bought the land quickly, they didn�t want to delay the building work.�

Trees are being planted by the roadside so as to reduce traffic noise. = Trees are being planted, trees are meant to reduce traffic.

When "so" is followed by an adjective before a that-clause, but it is another case, as the subordinate clause is not that of purpose but of result with an additional meaning of degree.

The recipe was so simple that even I could cook it. = The recipe was very simple, (that�s why) I could cook it.

He was walking so slowly that before too long we caught him up. = He was walking, (that�s why) we caught him up.

I still can�t say what type of subordinate clause there is in the sentence "The difference was so small as to not be worth arguing about.", though I suspect it to be that of result as well. But I haven�t found any proof yet. The only thing I�d like to quote is that "This is formal and not very common", according to M.Swan.

10 Dec 2008