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A question



chenchen_castrourdiales
Spain

A question
 
Hi everybody,
 
First of all I must thank everybody who helped me with my last thread. You �re just terrific.
 
What �s the passive voice of this sentence? "She looked at herself in the mirror." As far as I know there is no possible passive voice since the subject and the object are the same. We can �t turn it into a passive sentence because we have a reflexive pronoun. My student wrote "She was looked in the mirror by herself.", which sounds really weird to me. What �s your opinion and explanation?
 
Thanks a million again 

19 Apr 2011      





magneto
Greece

Passive for this sentence sounds weird to me, too. Like you said, the sentence already has a partly passive meaning because of the reflexive pronoun.
The student �s sentence sounds a bit metaphysical...It �s like she has left her body and her physical self is looking at the image in the mirror - or something like that...It �s odd.

19 Apr 2011     



mariec
Spain

maybe we could say, she was looked at in the mirror, at least it sounds all right

19 Apr 2011     



magneto
Greece

Well, Mariec, if you put it that way...
Grammatically that does sound all right...But it still seems a bit odd to me to turn such a sentence into passive. I don �t see the point - why shift the focus of the sentence to the act of "looking at sth in the mirror" and leave the subject out?  Unless, of course, the exercise demands that you turn all sentences into passive, in which case I �d go with your suggestion...Definitely not with Chenchen �s student �s, though!Smile

19 Apr 2011     



Apodo
Australia

She looked at herself in the mirror.
He cut himself while shaving.
 
 
IMHO There is no real passive of any sentence with reflexive pronouns in them because the subject and the object are the same person. Any of the suggestions above don �t sound like any English construction a native speaker would ever use.
 

19 Apr 2011     



rttrr
India

As I have read passives are used to emphasize the object or the work done. If the subject and the object both are same, like in the sentence, there is no need of any passive.

The sentence  "She was looked in the mirror by herself.", is  I think not correct according to the objectives of passives.

19 Apr 2011     



ldthemagicman
United Kingdom

Dear Chenchen Castrourdiales,

 

You are correct and your Student is not correct.  It is not possible to change the quoted sentence --- "She looked at herself in the mirror." --- from the Active Voice into the Passive Voice, for the reason that you have given: "Because we have a reflexive pronoun".

 

Professor Quirk and others in �A Comprehensive Grammar of the English Language�, write � ... there are a number of exceptions where the active (transitive) and passive voices are not in systemic correspondence� ... ... �Co-reference between a subject and a noun phrase object blocks the passive correspondence.  This constraint occurs with (a) reflexive pronouns, (b) reciprocal pronouns, and (c) possessive pronouns when co-referential to the subject�.

 

In non-technical English, this describes certain conditions when a passive sentence cannot be formed from an active sentence.  Among other conditions, it is when we use sentences with (a) reflexive pronouns, (b) reciprocal pronouns, and (c) possessive pronouns which refer back to the subject of the sentence.  They give examples of an Active Sentence converted to a Passive Sentence (where possible), while still maintaining correspondence between the two part of the sentence,

 

The asterisk * at the beginning of a sentence means, �This sentence is Not Acceptable!�

 

REFLEXIVE PRONOUN

(a)
ACTIVE
John could see  Paul in the mirror.
John could see  himself in the mirror.

 

PASSIVE

Paul could be seen in the mirror.
*Himself could be seen in the mirror.

 

RECIPROCAL PRONOUN

(b)
ACTIVE
We could hardly see each other in the fog.
 
PASSIVE
*Each other could hardly be seen in the fog.

 

POSSESSIVE PRONOUN

(c)

ACTIVE
The woman shook my hand.
The woman shook her head.
 
PASSIVE
My hand was shaken by the woman.
*Her head was shaken by the woman.

 

The asterisk * at the beginning of a sentence means, �This sentence is Not Acceptable!�

 

Note:  In the example (b) given above, Professor Quirk and others add further information, and give an example.

 

The Passive of a sentence with a Reciprocal Pronoun can be made acceptable if the pronoun is split into two parts, as follows:

               Each could hardly be seen by the other.

 

To repeat, you are correct and your Student is not correct.  It is not possible to change the quoted sentence --- "She looked at herself in the mirror." ---  from the Active Voice into the Passive Voice, for the reason that you have given: "Because we have a reflexive pronoun".

 

I hope that I have helped you.

 

Les

19 Apr 2011     



chenchen_castrourdiales
Spain

Thanks everybody, you are always so helpful. Thanks to magento, apodo and les in particular for your valuable time and help. I always pick up something from you.

19 Apr 2011     



Imdad
Bangladesh

Well, ..... But what about these sentences ......... 1. "She fans herself."
                                                                              2. "He killed himself."


Do these sentence sound good if they are turned as follows......

                                                                              1. "She is fanned by herself."
                                                                              2. "He was killed by himself."            ???????????


Most of the books in our country and most of the writers in our country follow this ........... what �s your opinion ???????????

22 Apr 2011