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ESL forum >
Message board > free template debate
free template debate
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pilarmham
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yes, denial seizes the day, so right, seansarto... we have destroyed our own beliefs, so now most of us feel we have no solid grounds to stand on. But, shouldn �t that precisely open up millions of new possibilities? After all, can anyone claim to have the absolute truth? |
25 Jun 2011
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pilarmham
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Just loved it, Anna! (I �m afraid we were all trying to say at the same time!)
(Sorry, I could have chosen a better image, I know but I have severe connection problems!)
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25 Jun 2011
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edrodmedina
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It �s funny. While we are having this discussion I visited Thistlegirl Graphics and lo and behold, there is a graphic titled EZ Seuss Fans on the site and guess what? someone there copied from Dr. Seuss!!! |
25 Jun 2011
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seansarto
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Pardon my spelling...
pilar, ...don �t know, can �t say...
"Seize the day, but ya best find out first who owns it"....I got wit, but ya can �t expect too much from it...
Liz, best thing you can do, I think, is send your work with an explanation of it �s usage to the thistlegirl company and see if they have a problem with it. If you make money off it, chances are they will. If you don �t, they will probably regard it as free publicity and product placement...which only enhances their exposure....and might by perchance create more revenue for them. Edrod had a good idea by putting your name on it, but in that case just be ready to hunker down for a long fight...but in the nd, it is the good fight.
"Where the country folk have intuition, the urban folk have advertising".. |
25 Jun 2011
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MapleLeaf
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Let just put it in this way about copying. Every clipart has its particular features, so called trademark, like in Mickey Mouse-- big round ears and a pointy nose. So if you put the different clothes on this Mickey Mouse and say -- oh, it �s different, and it �s my creation, the owner will file a lawsuit saying that you �re using his trademark. About Mona Lisa -- this artwork doesn �t have an owner. Who �re Leonardo Da Vinci �s relatives who will stand up for his work?Where are they? They �re gone... |
25 Jun 2011
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edrodmedina
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The Mona Lisa doesn �t have an owner?? Damn I should �ve picked it up the last time I was at the Louvre. |
25 Jun 2011
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MapleLeaf
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Ed, then you would deal with the Republic of France... I meant the person who created it, Leonardo Da Vinci -- he died you know. |
25 Jun 2011
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Sonn
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As far as I know the artwork becomes national wealth 70 years after it �s creator �s death.
The fact that even a template was reported sounds ridiculous to me.
As Liz has already mentioned, there are tons of Disney images in the wss and no one reports them. And I don �t think it �s worth doing. No one here earns money from using these pictures in the wss. We are not cartoonists, we are not artists.
The best way to avoid such situations is to forbid using any images. And no one will accuse anyone of being a thief, a cheater etc.
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25 Jun 2011
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edrodmedina
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@Maple... Leo is dead???? Say it ain �t so!!!! It must�ve been during the royal wedding, that�s why there wasn�t much press. |
25 Jun 2011
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juliag
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Well, I think this is rather a difficult one.
Even after looking on the Internet I can �t find any clear information on whether is is okay to make things in the same style as copyrighted images or not, though I know that a graphic artist friend of mine has told me in the past that it isn �t.
But that is because he is selling his work, Liz is not selling but sharing the image, so I �m not sure if the copyright rules apply or not.
While I do agree that nothing we create is ever made in a vacuum and so cannot be entirely original, what does make me pause for thought is that even within this site we have rules that we can �t blatantly copy another member �s layout and so on. And that is a rule for worksheets that we are sharing, not selling.
I wonder if it would seem like the same kind of thing to the owner of Thistlegirl designs, that her "layout" (translate as design) is being copied. I looked on her site and I wasn �t able to find anything that said that can �t be done, but thinking how mad some of us get when our layouts and so on are copied, I could understand if she would feel the same way.
What does seem clear to me from Liz �s post today and going back and finding Liz �s original post (http://www.eslprintables.com/forum/topic.asp?id=28235) is that this was a very generous act on Liz �s part. She made cliparts that it sounds like she didn �t even particularly want to use herself, for the sake of all the members here who are fans of the Thistlegirl designs and can �t/won �t buy them for whatever reason. I think the sharing, caring nature of that act should be applauded, whatever the outcome of this whole big discussion.
I notice that in that original thread both Mena and Marion G raise the issue as to whether it is okay to draw your own illustrations based on a copyrighted image or not. I think it �s such a shame that this issue wasn �t resolved then, even though the two of them took the time and effort to bring it up, as then the situation we had today could have been avoided. Maybe the thread was knocked off the forum soon after they posted, and that �s why no resolution came about, but hopefully someone can let us know the legal position this time, so we all know for the future.
As a final thought, I believe it goes back to the whole imitation versus inspiration thing.
In this case Liz said very clearly that her intention was to imitate, because she wanted to provide cliparts that the members of this site could use instead of the originals, and thus reduce the amount of worksheets being reported for containing unlicensed clipart. As she said today she was not claiming ownership of the design, but was honest about the fact that they were in the style of the Thistlegirl designs. Personally I think this was lovely of her. I don �t have the time, never mind the necessary talent, to make cliparts just because I think that they would benefit some other people here (though how I wish I did!) I think this was really selfless and kind of you, dear Liz, and am totally grateful for all the help you give so many of us and the wonderful resources you always share so willingly.
But on reflection, probably it would be better to go the way of inspiration rather than imitation for things that you will share here or on your blog. For personal use I think they are absolutely fine, but in order to avoid problems like this whole debate maybe it �s just easier to give things that will be shared more of your own stamp, than aim for imitations. I know you did do this, and as you say they are not exactly the same, but making them more specific to you would avoid this whole rigmarole in the future.
I just feel very bad that you, who were only trying to give and share so much with the members of this community, should have this bad experience.
If anyone knows the legalities of this, please let us all know. It would be really nice if this issue could be cleared up.
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25 Jun 2011
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