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ESL forum >
Message board > Genitive doubts
Genitive doubts
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Olindalima ( F )
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Genitive doubts
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Sorry to call this post back here, but I �d like some more info about it, please. If Lb is around I �d like to have her second opinion; this is a very difficult matter for us, Portuguese teachers, not a drop of similarity with our native language
http://www.eslprintables.com/forum/topic.asp?id=29772
Thanks a bunch
Linda
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9 Aug 2011
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Jayho
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Hi Linda
There is more here and here (Scroll down to compound possessives)
I think this is one of those hazy areas where native speakers don�t follow the rules and no-one thinks anything of it. I�m certainly one of those after reading about it.
It�s also a generational thing - natural language changes (even when grammatically incorrect) through the generations resulting in differences in opinion and natural usage between people schooled (and drilled in grammar) in different generations.
Perhaps a grammar guru like Lindsey, Les or Almaz can provide further info.
Cheers
Jayho |
9 Aug 2011
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Apodo
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1. my wife �s birthday and my daughter �s birthday
2. the tailor �s house and the baker �s house
As a native speaker I would say:
It �s my wife �s and my daughter �s birthday today.
The tailor �s and the baker �s houses are in the same street.
This to me, is the most natural sounding. You really need some context with complete sentences. There isn �t always a rule - it �s what sounds the best in the situation and some words are needed for clarification.
A partner can be described as �my friend and lover �, a child as �my son and heir � -and that usage is why I would say �my wife �s and my daughter �s �
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9 Aug 2011
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almaz
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I think you first have to determine whether the possession is joint or separate. If the former, the usual rule is to add the possessive inflection to the last possessor only: Alan and Adalberto �s parents. If the latter, both possessors have the possessive inflection: Alan �s and Adalberto �s parents.
Ah, if only it were so simple.
Note the word �usual �; this rule is straightforward only in certain contexts and can, in other contexts, lead to ambiguity (Alan and Adalberto �s parents were arrested for fraud. � was Alan arrested too?). It starts to get complicated when you throw in a dependent genitive like my, your etc. Linda �s and my post...
My head hurts...
Coordinate possessives have always been a real problem for native and non-native speakers alike and as the linguist Arnold Zwicky says:
There is no Great Programmer of Language L who writes the code for L, debugs it, and checks to make sure it covers all the eventualities. Even if there were, how could people access the code? Instead, what people have to do is discern, as best they can, regularities in the language around them from what they hear and read. This is piecemeal process, and it works differently for different people (because they have different experiences and because no one has, or could have, a panoptic view of the whole business). |
9 Aug 2011
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Olindalima ( F )
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Hi friends
Thank you so much for enligtening this point. Or, should I say the opposite - LOL.
Almaz, I loved when you arrested Alan, too. You are right, my head hurts.
Thank you, anyway, I clearly understand that what we have to do is discern and contexts are need.
Have a nice day.
Linda
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9 Aug 2011
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