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Techniques and methods in Language Teaching > Perfect English?
Perfect English?
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urpillay
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Perfect English?
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For more than two decades academics and publishers have propounded theories on pronunciation acquisition and training since in a global world, communicating properly with other people from all over the world has become a must. The communicative approach is a product of the dissatisfaction of educators and linguists with the audiolingual and grammar-translation methods since these methods are not useful for learning the whole language, the real one. With the communicative approach students learn to communicate in nearly real situations, or through games and other communicative learning activities in lower levels such as dramatizacion, singing songs, tongue twisters... Everything sounds great, but when you put this approach into practice there are some problems.
One problem is, how and when to correct our students mistakes? What mistakes should be corrected? If we correct all our students mistakes, we run the risk of our students do not want to speak anymore. What is more important: preserving the communicative process of the interaction or providing corrective feedback? These are difficult questions which depends on many different consideractions related to the learner.
Besides, I wonder how perfect pronunciation sounds like. Does it mean that the persons sounds like a native speaker? If the answer is affirmative, what kind of speaker: American, British, Australian, South African? What is more important: speaking like a native who makes grammar mistakes, inarticulate some sounds and make themselves hard to understand or a non-native speaker who has a lack of vocabulary but can express his/ her ideas in a clear way? Is there a �perfect� pronunciation in any language all around the world? What do you think?
INMA ALC�ZAR
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3 Jan 2009
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libertybelle
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That is quite a mouthful!
A very interesting question, though.
As a native speaker teaching Danish children to speak English, I have one goal and that goal is to teach my students to speak as clearly as possible so there is no doubt in what they are saying and they are understood. That is what language is all about; communication and the sharing of information between people. I couldn�t care less if my kids sound like me or not, as long as they are "understandable", which is the whole purpose of teaching English.
I don�t correct them much at all in the beginning, because that only gives them the feeling of failure - and nothing good comes from that.
Later on, when they speak fluently, I go more into grammatical detail and correct them a little more.
I try to teach them to listen, so they can hear their own mistakes and correct themselves.
Happy New Year
Libertybelle
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3 Jan 2009
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urpillay
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Hi, Libertybelle
Thanks for your quick answer. I am really interested in knowing other English teachers opinions since some teachers when I was studying English were all the time reminding us how important is to have a native accent. Although I consider this an important point, I agree with you and I think that making yourself understandable and communication are more important than sounding like a native. I was thinking about this topic and it was because of that I decided to post this topic in the forum.
Thanks a lot!!!
Happy New Year!!!
INMA ALC�ZAR
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3 Jan 2009
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Olindalima ( F )
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Hi, Urpillay, soooooooo looooonnngggg
How I understand you !!!!!!!!
What is more important, native English ( whatever it can be, with so many people requiring the status ), or communicating?
I have a group of older people/ students ( almost all of them already retired ) and a few of them are always questioning about pronunciation.
Well, I think you are Spanish, so probably you have heard about one of our prime ministers, M�rio Soares. He lived for many years in France, when the dictatorial government of Salazar obliged him to go abroad. He lived in France for many, many years, so, he is supposed to speak French. And he DOES.
Well, well, well,he probably writes French very well, but when it comes to speak, people like me, who studied a little bit of French, well, we have to laugh... it is really a comic situation.
He speaks French with such a terrible, horrible pronunciation that, well, no words to describe.
BUT, the fact is that he speaks, everyone understands him.
When I meet a foreigner, here in my country, speaking my own language with a strange accent, I think: " Wowww, what if I could speak his language, AS WELL AS, he is speaking mine.
So, I always tell my older students not to be so concerned about pronunciation, if they meet a KIND English person, they will manage to get understood, if not... it is not their fault, but the English guy.
Do you know Mourinho ( Jos� Mourinho ) ? The football coach, the one who was in Chelsea and now is in Inter ( I am not sure ) ? Have you ever heard him talking in English? Well, I must say he speaks better than me, with such a " NICE AND TERRIBLE" accent.
I love people able to communicate and express themselves.
This post is long and yesterday I promised I would keep my mouth shut for the next days, but, there is one REAL STORY I want to tell you, all of you, teachers of a foreigner language.
When I was about 12 or 13, political situation was very severe here in Portugal, so many people migrated to others countries. We had a couple, living in the neighborhood who were very poor and they went off to Netherlands. A few years later they came back, on holidays and the lady, ( her name is/ was Alzira ) told me a super funny story. She could hardly speak Portuguese well, she had hardly attended school, so, once, she went to a kind of a small / familiar grocer�s near her house and she wanted to buy EGGS. She didn�t know how to say eggs in English and ( it was not a supermarket, but that kind of very small shop) she could not see any eggs around, so....
WHAT WOULD YOU DO IN SUCH A SITUATION???????????
Well, she was very clever, so she picked a lemon that was around, she put it under her ass and she made the sound hens do when they are laying their eggs.
GUESS WHAT????
She went back home with the eggs she needed.
Let�s do some pratical work, the great majority of our students needs English as an extra tool, they are not going to be famous writers, poets, etc, they need to know English, because English is the common language around the world.
How many people have you got in your country who can�t speak / write your language correctly?
Hugs and hugs
(I promise I will keep my mouth very, very closed . )
Olindalima
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3 Jan 2009
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libertybelle
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Well, regarding accents...............
I have travelled lots of places and had to deal with people speaking the same language as I do - the difference being they spoke with heavy local dialects and I didn�t understand half of what they said, but they understood everything I said!!!
why waste time on accents? There are so many accents in the world - and they are a local thing; a local dialect.
I don�t come from the southern states in the USA - I wouldn�t dream of speaking with a southern accent.
My friend from Liverpool, uk - wouldn�t dream of speaking like they do in Yorkshire!
So - like I said - it�s all about communication - not dialect.
L
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3 Jan 2009
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Im Lety
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Have you thought why people change their voice after their 14�s?
If you learn a foreign language before your 14�s...You have the opportunity to speak like a native speaker...Of course if your teachers have an excellent pronunciation...
Has to be with people string mouth...
Chinese people has Chinese English pronunciation...I have Mexican Enlgish pronunciation...
We will never have a perfect pronunciation, not even in 1000 years...Hahaha
Its imposible an adult person speaks like a native speaker...We can have a very good pronunciation but not talk like a native speaker...
The perfect way to correct Ss mistakes is repeating the correct way immediately after your Ss mistake...
Do not tell them : �the correct way is like...or...�you are wrong�or �you have to pronunced like�...
We have to promote that learning a foreing lenguage could be very enjoyable and if they make a mistake its fun instead of make them not to speak anymore...About make them feel embarassed...
Its important to have a good communication with our Ss...
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3 Jan 2009
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urpillay
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Hahaha, Olindalima,
I couldn�t stop laughing with the eggs story  !!! Thank you very much to all of you for replying!!!
Good night!!!
INMA ALC�ZAR
http://myeslcorner.blogspot.com
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3 Jan 2009
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Logos
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It is interesting that you start this topic with the title �Perfect English� because as has been pointed out, it is extremely difficult to define exactly what perfect English is - particularly when it comes to pronunciation. The staunch idealists will tell us that RP or Reported Pronunciaton (The Queen�s English, Oxford English) is the standard, but this type of accent is used by less than 5% of native English speakers in England and I suppose less than .00005% of native speakers around the world.
I agree entirely that the aim of helping students with pronunciation is with �effective communication� and not necessarily teaching one particular way of speaking.
Whilst this may seem a little racist, there are certain language groups that find some aspects of English pronunciation particularly difficult. I find that Koreans and Japanese are harder to understand than say Chinese or Malay speakers and I think some of these reasons are because of 1st language interference. Either they do not have the sound in their own language and find it difficult to articulate in a new language, or they have the sound but don�t use it in combination with the way it is used in English.
I agree with most of what Imlety says, except that some people are able to change their accents, but for the majority of adults, I would say over 20 years and not 14, it is very difficult to change.
But what is wrong with a foreign accent. I have heard (though being male I have no real opinion on this) that a French accent is considered to be quite sexy to native English speakers!!! And whilst there may be some minor or major mistakes made by learners, these are usually only temporary and the learner can be made aware of the �faux pas�
I am able to speak in Chinese which is a tonal language and differences in meaning are not so much in pronunuciation but in tone. I was once in conversation with a girl and she told me that she had recently got engaged. I said to her (in perfect Chinese!!!) "When did he ask you?" (Romanisation: Ta shenme shihou wen ni?) She replied, rather blushingly, "Of course he kissed me!! Because the word wen in Chinese can mean ask or kiss, depending upon the tone.
As the British say Vive la difference and long live accents and pronunciation problems. |
3 Jan 2009
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gaby_mn
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I love this site, and the topics are very interesting!!.. Anyway, since we are talking about accents, I would just like to say that my students are very self-concsious about their Mexican English accent. Does this happen elsewhere or is it just common in Mexico?? I�d also like to say.. I have an American accent because I was raised in the US, and I have a REALLY hard time understanding the Irish accent I hear in my course books (New Opportunities, by Longman). :( any pointers? |
3 Jan 2009
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alien boy
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AS far as the English language & �correct� pronunciation goes, the debate would have to be at least 200 years old! One of the main reasons for differences between American & British spelling is even political - the desire for Americans to be American & NOT British when the first truly American dictionaries were produced.
Standard American or Standard British Englishes are the standards taught internationally (including locally in English speaking countries). As soon as you start with accents & speech patterns/grammar/syntax as distinct from the written language you find huge variations around the world.
English is an inflectional language as distinct from tonal (think Mandarin, Vietnamese or even Japanese!) so speech patterns are very different. Apparently (from some of the 2nd language acquisition stuff I�ve been reading) many Asian ESL speakers (including those using �correct� grammar) don�t use inflection, so their emphasis on many syllables is neutral. However, they can clearly communicate with each other & the majority of English speakers world wide!
Of course there�s no such thing as the �correct� accent. The dominance of particular accents over others is a combination of social, political & economic factors - London, for example, was a dominant city for trade, politics, education, arts & printing when the English language started to become standardised & codified, so it was natural for this dialect of English to become dominant at that time (please note, I am aware that there are several accents in London as distinct from British Received Pronunciation).
Some English accents are almost impossible for me to follow (heavy Irish or Yorkshire,for example) but these individuals can generally understand an Aussie unless we use our local lingo.
In my family we have English speakers from Canada, the Ukraine, Argentina, Japan, Australia, America, Egypt & Korea - we can all understand each other perfectly well, all have different accents & all know different dialects of English so are constantly learning new things from each other.
Just a few muddled thoughts...
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3 Jan 2009
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renca
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Well, I suppose that SS should be taught formal English first, which is not so demanding as most textbooks don�t use dialect variations. The differences between accents and dialects are postponed mostly to more advanced stages. I teach intermediate Ss and above and always try to tell them not to be ashamed of the Czech accent, as there are many Englishes in the world. I also warn those who try to acquire a regional accent - I used to have a class of Ss who simply fell in love in Scottish accent and tried to copy it - not to overdo it, as they might sound funny, and that they will never be as good as native Scottish and might not be understood by other other speakers. I try to stick them to something which resembles Standard British English, which should be understood by most speakers.
I also tell them that language can also be used as a means of social prejudice. In fact, many people believe the SBE (Standard British English) or RP (Received Pronunciation) is �better� English than other dialects. This results in certain prejudices against people who are not proficient in RP. At times, people who are not proficient in RP strive to acquire RP in order to bring about the very real social advantages attached to its use. Sometimes regional accents are seen as vernacular, which is unwise as there are so many, but on the other hand they help you tell the education and social group the person falls into. I suppose this applies not only to English. |
3 Jan 2009
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