|
ESL Forum:
Techniques and methods
in Language Teaching
Games, activities
and teaching ideas
Grammar and
Linguistics
Teaching material
Concerning
worksheets
Concerning
powerpoints
Concerning online
exercises
Make suggestions,
report errors
Ask for help
Message board
|
ESL forum >
Grammar and Linguistics > Compound Noun
Compound Noun
|
seansarto
|
Compound Noun
|
|
Could somebody explain the logic that would clarify why "beach hotel" is a compound noun?..My thinking argues that "beach" is being used as adjective..It doesn �t really create a new thing...It only describes the location of the hotel or maybe purpose...Yet all the information I have seen states "beach" is not used as an adjective....Or "beach hat" ...Definitely purpose there...I argue "beach" is being used as adjective. ...Conversely, "action movie"..action is an adjective describing purpose...Doesn �t make sense to me. |
17 Nov 2015
|
|
|
|
ldeloresmoore
|
|
Ok -- Let me see if I can take a swing at this one. I am from West Palm Beach, Florida. Right on the ocean. We have a lot of sand and a lot of tourists. To me -- I �m with you: I kinda see Beach Hotel as a noun with an adjective. BUT -- at the same time, yes, if someone has told you that this is a compound noun, I can see the logic there, too. And here �s why -- As a WPB resident, we have hotels on the beach and we have what I instinctively know would fall under "beach hotel" -- the amenities and function are a bit different. Like the primary -- and sometimes sole -- function of the establishment is to facilitate use of the beach. Period. As opposed to just a hotel on the beach, which is like a hotel anywhere else, except that, "Oh,yeah, and, by the way, we also have a beach." A little rambled, but I hope it helps. Cheers -- Dee |
17 Nov 2015
|
|
|
almaz
|
|
According to Longman Student Grammar of Spoken and Written English, a compound noun is a type of derived noun which follows common patterns and may be a single word, two words or a hyphenated word. These patterns include noun + verb/noun (e.g. gunfire), verb-ing + noun (e.g. filing cabinet), noun + verb-er (e.g eye-opener) and even the noun-less pattern verb + particle (e.g. checkout). It also includes adjective + noun (e.g. real estate, grandmother) and the sequence you�re referring to, noun + noun (e.g. bar code, wallpaper, eye-witness). You can see the difference between the structural patterns of the last two. It�s just one pattern among several, but I�d say that there�s no problem with describing the �beach� part of the compound as a noun. If you�re looking for a logical relationship, you�d be right if you said it�s one of location (the hotel is found on, or near, the beach). Alex
|
17 Nov 2015
|
|
|
seansarto
|
|
Thanks...but doesn�t action in "action movie" carry same weight and distinction?...The function or purpose of the movie is to exhibit and express "action"..."Beach" is a distinct geographical location...I �m getting similar results with words like "mountain", "lakeside", "land"..etc.... On the other hand "East" in "East wing" denotes direction and is a bit more ambiguous/abstract...Results show "east" to be an adjective...It�s the concept behind nouns used as adjectives..Not so much proper adjectives....Is it something to do with tangibility?
|
17 Nov 2015
|
|
|
almaz
|
|
Well, Sean, to quote the grammar I mentioned earlier, noun + noun sequences "are used to express a bewildering array of logical relations", many of which might belong to several categories. These include � apart from location, of course � composition (glass windows), purpose (pencil case), identity (exam paper), objective (taxi driver), time (Christmas party), institution (insurance company), content (horror film) and so on. And there are many others, such as riot police, which don�t fit into these categories so neatly. But beach hotel and action film are both still part of the noun + noun pattern. You have to consider the context and decide for yourself what the category is (if indeed there is one conveniently to hand). �East� (with or without caps) can be an adjective, an adverb or a noun and may indicate direction or location.
|
17 Nov 2015
|
|
|
seansarto
|
@almaz...Not trying to be offensive but don�t really care much for the word "bewildering" in logical terms...and most adult intelligences wouldn�t buy that as explanation...That �s like kinda saying, "just believe"! or "we say so"...Good for children but neither resolves the debate....Both I and the student who invoked this inquiry know it is "noun + noun" for that is obvious..The question arose in a lesson trying to put adjectives in a correct order...and there seemed a conflict in reason with "I need a nice, long, relaxing, beach vacation" from an activity I had obtained from this site to compliment the sparse material that was made available for the lesson ...I knew that was the correct order...but the students wanted to know why "nice" and "relaxing" weren�t both opinions...or why "relaxing" and "beach" weren�t both purpose..Perhaps a conjunction could be used between "nice and relaxing"? ..There seemed a duality in the emphasis of the words chosen to describe the vacation...I had the "ing" rule...but it wasn�t enough of a determiner...This led me to questioning the reasoning why even "beach" was not determined as an adjective instead of a noun..the combination of the two nouns does not suggest to me a "compound" noun...it seems to be fulfilling a descriptive role telling purpose in terms of the hotel...We could say "beach and resort hotel" with a conjunction or "nice and relaxing hotel" and there would be no loss of fluency if I instead said "relaxing and nice hotel" or "resort and beach hotel"...Is it only in the presence of multiple adjectives that have common emphasis?...I hadn�t time to give it much thought...What is interesting about the language is its logic...Sharp wits are forged in reason...It makes no sense not to call "beach" a proper adjective in terms of "beach hotel" or "beach vacation"....I�m not Socrates, but I want to call it an adjective until logic is presented to clarify "bewildering" �s intent....Any linguists out there?..Applied? Cognitive? etc...Inquiry is the mind�s first line of defense from apathy.
It turns out there are quite intensive regards concerning the quality of determining when nouns are "valid" as adjectives:
http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/87609/is-this-noun-used-as-an-adjective/87611#87611
|
17 Nov 2015
|
|
|
almaz
|
|
The book I cited (Longman Student Grammar of Spoken and Written English) is a corpus-based grammar aimed at advanced students and teachers of English. It�s an abridged version of this magisterial tome. It�s definitely not for children. And I�d say the authors� use of the word "bewildering" in the context I gave you can be glossed the same way as, say, perplexing: intricate or complicated. It needn�t mean confusing or muddled.
|
18 Nov 2015
|
|
|
seansarto
|
|
Know the book..But, obviously the tome is not definitive. |
18 Nov 2015
|
|
|
almaz
|
And which grammar book or books would you consider to be authoritative, Sean? Which ones do you consult? I�m genuinely curious 
|
18 Nov 2015
|
|
|
seansarto
|
|
In response to YOUR inquiry perhaps: APA Dictionary of Clinical Psychology...For all other inquiries..in the past.. I used to find Mark TWain�s "The Diary of Adam and Eve" as pretty definitive reference...but these days, maybe "It Doesn�t Take a Hero" by General "Stormin" Norman Schwarzkopf is more definitive |
18 Nov 2015
|
|
|
