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Ask for help > Help! Present perfect or past simple?
Help! Present perfect or past simple?
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GIOVANNI
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Shucks, Linda I guess us Canucks are real showoffs. Sorry, Douglas I really like to show off every chance I get.  |
13 May 2009
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ballycastle1
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In British English �gotten � is only used in phrases such as �ill-gotten gains �, meaning money obtained illegally. |
13 May 2009
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Jayho
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My opinion: past simple for both
After the boy got [was] hurt the nurse put a bandage on his arm.
Highfalutin - hah made me laugh! I love this word but haven �t heard it for a while. |
13 May 2009
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Abdelhadi
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I see what you mean. The meaning of faluten is clear now. But this doesn �t mean that using the past perfect in the first clause of the sentence is incorrect as one may think �Douglas � want to say. On the contrary, using this tense may be more suitable than just using the simple past, grammatically speaking. In fact, what I �ve understood from "Douglas" �s comment is that not using the past perfect in that clause is an American specific only and it has nothing to do with grammar but with culture.
So I think since the Americans regard the person who uses the perfect tense as a faluten then maybe this tense should be used just in formal situations, according to them. Maybe this is why the Americans don �t use the perfect tense in their informal conversations, so when someone uses a formal word/expression in an informal context/situation, he/she seems faluten.
But again, if my analysis is correct, then this has nothing to do with grammar but with what is agreed uopn in a specific community. This agreement, however, doesn �t mean that the thing agreed on is correct or that the one which is not agreed on is incorrect. Sometimes you find that a specific community may opt for using certain elements of language even if these elements may be wrong grammatically, but they do that only because those elements have become common and they have become a part of the community specific.
I think that �s why when giving our point of view concerning any language element, we shouldn �t depend on our experience of the language as native speakers only, but rather we should analyse the element scientifically, especially if it has to do with grammar.
Well, this is my point of view.
Douglas, if you think my analysis is wrong then I �ll be happy if you correct me please.
Have a good day/night
Abdelhadi |
14 May 2009
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Zora
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Actually abdelhadi, some books say that the past perfect could be substituted for the simple past because in all reality there is not a "past tense of a past"... So, unless the exercise requires this usage, it�s perfectly acceptable to use the past in the example. It�s just that in some countries, like the USA, it s usage is somewhat more formal and in others like Canada or Britain, it s more normal...
Many regards,
Linda
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14 May 2009
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Abdelhadi
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Thanx for your clarification. Things are clearer now. This means that my analysis about the formality of the tense in the USA usage is acceptable. So while it is more formal in an English speaking country, it is more normal in other English speaking communities. That �s fine and stuck in the brain now 
Have a good night
Abdelhadi
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15 May 2009
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douglas
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Abdelhadi,
Sorry I ddin �t answer your posts yesterday--I was simply too busy.
Here is a good explanation of "high falutin �"
The point to my post was that a language is an entity of its own, it �s maleable: it grows, it changes, it has quirks, it is not fully definable. That is what I love about language. Sometimes I just find it necessary to take a reality check from binding a language to a very specific, structure that chokes it.
If we didn �t let our language breathe it would never have produced such great works as Shakespeare �s plays, or Mark Twain �s prose, or Lennon/McCartney �s lyrics, or Dickinson �s poetry. Though rules and structure are necessary for teaching and understanding, we can never forget that a language is there to communicate (including undefinable feelings and ideas). I refuse to let English get choked into a world of logic and structure at the cost of creativity and the celebration of life.
There are two-sides to the brain, we should use them both.
Douglas
Edit: fixed the link (I hope) |
15 May 2009
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Abdelhadi
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Thanx for your clarification. Things are clearer now. This means that my analysis about the formality of the tense in the USA usage is acceptable. So while it is more formal in an English speaking country, it is more normal in other English speaking communities. That �s fine and stuck in the brain now
Have a good night
Abdelhadi
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15 May 2009
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Zora
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You are more than welcome Adbelhadi
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15 May 2009
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