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ESL forum >
> Only To My Dear Moderators...
Only To My Dear Moderators...
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paula_esl
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 If that �s your best argument, I rest my case.
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25 May 2009
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Abdelhadi
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manonski (f)
"Personally, I think it�s not against the rules but you should ask the person for permission to copy their layout. These members work really hard at creating their own personal styles so the least we can do is ask permission."
I see what you mean and I respect your point of view and even if I may share the same idea with you, I�d be sorry to say that this view is useless at this point just because we need to state rules here rather than our views. So dear manonski, if there is no rule against copying a layout from another person�s work then why should I ask for their permission? If you say �you should ask�� This should be according to a clear rule, but since there is no rule, then we shouldn�t ask for that permission. If you are talking about ethics and manners which are part of our behaviour as human beings then you are talking about something different. Here, we are dealing with the website�s rules rather than societal or behavioural rules. So if you say that asking for permission is the least thing we can do, it means that if you don�t ask for that permission, then no harm will happen to the ws of the person who copied the layout since there is no rule against that act � So we need a clear rule. Is there any?
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26 May 2009
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Abdelhadi
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paula_esl
"It happened to me today and no one asked for my permission. And the person who did that is not a new member in the site, so why have I been a source of inspiration to her?"
I�m so sorry to hear that someone copied your layout today, and so much sorry to know that he/she is not a new member as you said. I can understand it when a new member with no points, no experience and no knowledge about the website�s rules copies the layout of a creative contributor just for the sake of getting some points in order to be able to download some useful ws on the website or just to take the first step towards the world of creativity, but when this is done by someone who is old on the site and who has a big number of points already, then I�m afraid to say that this reflects something negative hidden inside; let�s call it lack of profession or laziness or whatever.
Even if the act of copying someone�s layout may be permissible since there is no rule against that, as some of you said, but for old moderators on the website it may be a sign of weakness. Hey, leave such acts to people like us with little experience and few points |
26 May 2009
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Abdelhadi
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sazzag
�Technically it is permissible under the current website rules to do exactly that but it is a very emotive issue and you are likely to upset the person who you have copied the layout from if you haven �t asked permission to do so ��������������. This is a subject which certainly needs more clarification. I think respect and common sense comes into it. You only have to think how the other person will feel to know that copying is going to cause problems and one should think if really it is the right thing to do.�
All what you said is right and I share you your point of view, but my dear here we are dealing with rules not with emotions.
You should ask Victor to issue a new rule against copying people�s layout since we all have the same point of view that it is emotive issue which certainly causes people to be upset, but till then this is considered a permissible act according to the website rules and many people will continue doing the thing that you and me don�t like, which means that there is a gap in the rules of the website and that these rules NEED some major alterations soon |
26 May 2009
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manonski (f)
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I think voting to remove a sheet because of a similar layout is going to be difficult and might create more troubles. It �s already difficult to vote on scanned sheets, flashcards and what is an ESL resource and I thought the rules were clear about that. |
26 May 2009
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Abdelhadi
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manonski (f)
�We can �t vote to remove a printable because it resembles someone else �s style.�
You mean someone else�s layout. I just feel disappointed now because I�ve seen some wss which were removed because of copying someone�s layout. This is in fact a real problem.
1- We don�t have a clear rule on the site against copying people�s layout.
2- Many worksheets were removed for having copied layouts.
3- Some moderators with high points use this as a card to vote for the removal of this type of wss whenever they like and with whomever they like. So when it comes to �someone they know�, the card may be kept in, but when dealing with other people, the card may be taken out.
I know that many moderators will say this is wrong, but I�m sure this is not. I myself have seen some wss were removed because of that and some moderators claimed that it is not permissible to copy someone else�s layout. I thought there was a rule which states that but then I realized that it�s just their point of view �. Pooooor members!! They were so unlucky to be treated unfairly by some �sick� moderators. Should I call them sick? Yes of course that suits them well. That�s not directed to all the moderators, most of whom I like and respect, but just to some of those who don�t deserve to have that name.
I would be happy if the method of choosing moderators change so that only those who act accurately stay, then this kind of problems would certainly disappear.
I just want to say: If there is no rule against a specific act then please leave your points of view aside. Everybody has got plenty already. We need a clear rule to act upon, otherwise no moderator or member has the right to report a ws bcz it�s against their point of view.
I think this is logical enough even if I�m against copying people�s layouts.
I just hope that everybody on the website is treated equally and according to the clear rules. If the rule is not clear then you should ignore it until it becomes clear. It is so simple to issue clear rules, isn �t it?
So let�s wait until Victor helps us issue a clear rule about this |
26 May 2009
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manonski (f)
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You say "Some moderators with high points use this as a card to vote for the removal of this type of wss whenever they like and with whomever they like. So when it comes to �someone they know�, the card may be kept in, but when dealing with other people, the card may be taken out"
How do you know that? Can you prove what you �re saying?
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26 May 2009
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Abdelhadi
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manonski (f)
First, be quite sure that you are far from that accusation. I know that you are honest. I�ve read many of your comments when it comes to voting for or against wss and I know that you are fair and I respect you because of that. Second, I�m not the only one on the website who says that. You can read what Paula wrote earlier. She has the same view as mine. Besides, I have nothing to gain if I accuse some moderators to act that way. I said I myself saw how many mss were removed because of having copied layouts and that happened just to some people, which is unfair. If all the comments are still stored on the website then you can just do a quick research and you will certainly find them. You are a moderator and an old one, so you have the experience that I don�t have on the site.
Manonski, just a whisper in your ears: Are you sure that what I said is wrong? |
26 May 2009
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manonski (f)
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I can tell you that when people are voting based on an opinion, they are being told it is just that, an opinion.
Some people have very unique style here but some printables are also very similar in layouts without being unique in style. I �m talking here about vocabulary sheets. There are not a million ways to place pictures on a printable. That is why I �m saying I believe it might create more troubles.
When you create a rule you have to make sure that you can enforce it otherwise it will turn into mayhem and creates more frustration than anything else.
And one of the big power anyone has it on the download button. |
26 May 2009
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mena22
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Hi! You �re right manonski, there is no rule about "layout" and "style" and there couldn �t possibly be one, because it is simply not feasible.
So, if there is no rule that says we cannot use somebody else �s style or layout, the debate going on in the reported contributions section should be taking place right here on this forum and not there, because our job as moderators is to vote according to the rules established by the site, not according to our own personal views. It �s because people vote based on their personal opinions and not on the rules that there are such akward and unfair situations in which some layout copied worksheets are removed and others aren�t; that �s why two uploads of the same worksheet on the same day are sometimes removed and other times are not. Would people vote according to the rules, this would never happen. We might not agree with the rule, but at least everybody would be treated in the same way and every worksheet would be voted based on the same criteria. That �s what I call fair play.
I hope I have answered your question dear abdelhadi!
Have a good night.
mena |
26 May 2009
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