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Message board > Rules?? I think not...
Rules?? I think not...
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Zora
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Rules?? I think not...
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I�d like to point out to all the moderators that are SO hip on following the RULES... that sometimes we should think logically before making a judgement.
As many of you know, I defended a black and white version of a worksheet that went up TWO days after the coloured version. Why? Am I as a few implied or presumed - that I either don�t know the rules or I am a hypocrite??... And I say "No, neither." ... I am erring on the side of caution. The file is 256kb and perhaps that person had trouble uploading the second half that day, and all the next day... It is possible. I mean who has not had trouble with computer glitches and couldn�t upload for a few days?? Or maybe it was a request??? Or maybe he exceeded his daily LIMIT!!! We have saved b&w versions that were requested. Why not this one????
Second, I don t think that it s any more fair to delete this worksheet than it is to allow members who put up "PART 1" one day and "PART 2" another!! It�s basically the same idea! Besides, this person ISN�T going to get more points - NOT like the "Part one" and "Part 2" people!!
Basically, all I am asking is a little bit of fairness on people �s parts toward other members here. Is it really a crime that a b&w worksheet was uploaded two days later? Could it not be a system problem that didn�t allow this member to upload both worksheets that day??? Come on, please be fair...
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26 May 2009
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mena22
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Good morning dear Zora, I understand your point and I might even agree with you, the problem is that, as I said last night, if we vote according to our own views and not according to the established rules, then we are going to be contributing to such akward and most unfair situations in which some worksheets, reported exactly for the same reason are removed and others aren�t. Would people vote according to the rules, this would never happen. We might not agree with the rule, but at least everybody would be treated in the same way and every worksheet would be voted based on the same criteria. That�s what I call fair play.
So zora, the way I see it, the problem is not with the moderators who make a point in
following the rules, whether they agree with it or not, which is my case, but with the rules themselves.
Hugs,
mena
P.S. Morning AB, I just saw you now. |
26 May 2009
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alien boy
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Hi Mena!
I know I commented about this somewhere in a discussion sometime... I feel that there should be some leeway given for the B&W copy... that or members need to have 4 uploads per day or 2 uploads per day ... or the uploading member should include an explanatory note in their worksheet description (& I�m sure I mentioned that to use as a possible loophole)
However, I do believe that the rules should be the guide for voting, not personal opinion. This should stop unfair behaviour from occurring in an ideal world.
I �ve been reading your posts - thank you for making some clear & well reasoned statements.
And... Good Evening from Japan!
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26 May 2009
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Zora
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Yes, Mena I agree to some extent... BUT we have allowed other worksheets to go through. Now, I ask is that fair? Is it fair that because we appreciate some members more than others that we "bend" those rules???
I think all should be treated fairly... and we should consider everything before voting. The rules are guide lines to follow, but not all the time can they be applied without taking other things into consideration too when we vote.
Greyscale should be included if possible in the worksheet, and black and white versions the same day BUT what if we can�t because perhaps the system is wonky that day?? Are we to be punished for that? What about others who enjoy the B&W worksheets? Is it fair we download them because we love them and then this person has the points so cruelly taken away from him???
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26 May 2009
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urpillay
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I can �t agree more with you Zora because I had the problem you comment now here. I have only uploaded a colour version worksheet and its B&W one, but I couldn �t include both in just one worksheet. The colour version was two heavy in spite of having reduced the size using paint. Do I need to delete then one of the version? I think it �s not fair! I haven �t done it to win more points, I don �t need them at the moment. I understand that it �s difficult to know who do that to get more points and who don �t, but what solution is the best? Deleting or not deleting? That is the question now.
INMA ALC�ZAR
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26 May 2009
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mena22
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It will never be fair zora if we vote according to our opinions and not to he rules. Let �s try to see the example you mentioned above: a black and white version that doesn �t come out on the same day of the coloured version as stated in the rules, which are very clear on this. If we defend that it should be allowed to upload it some days later - one or two, whatever - and vote according to our personal opinion, the results are impredictable, meaning that the worksheet may or may not be removed, accoding to the number of people who voted on that they, on that particular worksheet, and according to their views on the issue - follow the rule or personal opinion.
That can never lead us to fairness, for today the worksheet might be voted to stay, and tomorrow a similar one might be voted to go. That is why rules exist. To avoid incoherences and unfairness. I know that those who vote according to their personal views believe they are being fair, the problem is that by doing so, by trying to be fair in a particular situation, they �re going to end up contributing to a much greater unfair situation in which the worksheets are removed or not based on personal views, on different criteria.
We have to think about the rule and maybe as AB said add something to it. The fact is that we cannot ask the moderators to upload the worksheet, for example, to see how many Kbs it has, to see if it is fair or not. I did the experience 2 or 3 days ago with lots of reported cards because one of the reasons some people said they might stay was because of the size of the images. Well, the size of the card was only 28,5 kb, which means that 10 cards might have been uploaded together, not in separate worksheets. I did that once, but we don �t have the time to do that all the time we are faced with such a situation. That is simply not feasible. So the solution is in my opinion in the rules, but we have to understand that sometimes a rule cannot be too particular. God forbid us if we had to check the size of cards before voting.
Hugs,
mena |
26 May 2009
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Vickiii
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Sometimes rules don �t quite cover a situation.
this is why most societies have juries - to interpret rules and represent general opinion.
If enough people are moderating - then it shouldn �t matter - as majority opinion will probably be more popular anyway.
providing moderating - kind of left the site rules up for interpretation...
I have to admit - i don �t alway svote based on rules - but on plain old fairness.
don �t forget people interpret rules differently sometimes as well.
the best example of this is a set of flashcards. some people think that means they all have to be in one document - whereas some members upload high quality flashcards that are a part of a set - one at a time.
moderators - moderate - that means they must form their own opinion sometimes.
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26 May 2009
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mena22
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The only thing I can say then is that we must think:
- first, how we could make rules clearer, at least to try to avoid ambiguity and misinterpretations that lead to unfair situations as with the case of a set of flashcards;
- second, on the role of moderators - should they or should they not vote according to their own personal views when there is a rule that explicitly goes against it, as the case above of the B&W version: It is not allowed to send black&white versions of your old worksheets. You can send the BW version of your worksheet if you upload both versions the same day.
And I really must go now.
Thank you all for this interesting discussion.
Have a nice day, 
mena |
26 May 2009
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s.lefevre
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Why don �t we stop uploading greyscale worksheets as it is really easy with some clicks to transform a colour worksheet in grey. This would avoid a lot of fight und " unfairness". Some time ago, it wasn �t forbidden to upload a colour worksheet in grey, I have done it ( last year because it was a request, but I can �t see really why we should do it. |
26 May 2009
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Zora
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I think moderators should also use their judgement because sometimes things are not just black or white. It �s a shade of grey and we must be able to seek out what is right - and fair.
I think that the rules were made so that we have some semblance of order here... but sometimes, we need to think beyond the box, see what is fair and what isn�t and truthfully NOBODY is 100% objective... we are human, we are limited by our need to protect others and sometimes we will help out or forgive one member and not another for the same transgression. It �s natural and what I am trying to say is that we let A LOT of things go by or we see that so-so and so did something and it isn �t reported because that person is a wonderful member. Meanwhile another gets punished for the same offence...
In fact, I never report things anymore - ever. It doesn �t matter if it has some French in it or Spanish, it was downloaded by others so obviously it �s useful...
And, yes Mena... I think it would be only fair to download a flashcard to see what the kbs are. That would be the fair thing to do. I do it and have done it, I would hate to be judged so lightly by others so I tend to make sure on what I am voting.
Also, if the system can upload a worksheet twice (and this is allowed), then why could it not allow somebody to upload another worksheet for whatever reason? Machines sometimes fail.
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26 May 2009
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