It took me so long to write my post that when I finished it didn �t even appear on the forum  . Sorry to bring the issue back, please you do not have to answer, I just wanted to make this modeartor �s issue clear. http://www.eslprintables.com/forum/topic.asp?id=9335

 

 

Good morning to you all. I did not want to participate in this discussion because I have said so many times before what I think about this issue that I did not want to repeat myself. My opinion is once again stated in my comment to the reported worksheet in question, which you can see above, and, besides, from the moment the member apologised to me and made me believe it wouldn �t happen again things were sorted out for me and I �ve never thought of it again!

 

However, I �ve changed my mind, because I believe reality is being distorted. My dear katiana, I do not think I was  treated differently from you or anyone else in this site. People have shown again and again how much they care about you, so what makes you think that they should vote for the removal of a worksheet with a layout copied from me and not for the removal of a worksheet with a layout copied from you?

 

The reason why the outcome in similar situations is different, as in this case, has to do NOT with people �s preferences, for I believe the great majority vote as professionals, independently of their personal feelings towards the member behind the worksheet, but with the fact that some members do not vote according to the rules, but rather on what they feel it is correct.

 

Look at the comments on the reported worksheet and you can easily see my point. While there are some members that like me don �t approve of copying layouts but vote for the worksheet not to be removed because they believe rules are to be followed if we do not want to create unfair situations, other members vote according to their beliefs, which ends up leading to the unintentional situation in which sometimes the same worksheet is  deleted, sometimes not. Consequently, people are, in the end, treated differenly.

 

People, therefore, appear here at the END of the process, never at the beginning. They are not the cause, but the consequence. No one votes based on the person in question, but on the situation being judged. And to prove that my dear katiana, we have your example. Had we voted based on how much we love and care about you, the worksheet with the layout copied from yours would have been deleted. But it wasn �t. People voted according to the rules or according to their convictions, but never on a personal preference basis.

 

We also have the example above to prove it - two different types of voters: the ones like me who said do not remove because they follow rules although they do not agree with copy and paste, and the other ones who said remove because they follow their beliefs. In no comment can you see anything which denotes that the voter had in mind a personal preference for me. Much on the contrary, they were coherent with their previous votes and voted for the worksheet to stay, just as I did.

 

So, if we have George Orwell �s animal farm here, the lack of rules is probably the cause. Never the moderators. I hope I could prove that, although I �m tired and am not sure if I was able to make myself clear.

 

I could not finish without thanking victor for always being there for us. Now we have a new rule concerning layouts and if people follow it the system will  be fairer.

 

Lots of love to you all,

mena

 

Please tell me where is the new Victor �s rule about layouts. I can �t find it.

 

Thank you

 

13a

 

But I do stand by my belief we do tend to copy others work whether we want to admit to it or not.  When we start out we pull from our comfort zone and that is those that taught us before.  Then as we learn we expand and pull from others that grab our attention to try new things out, but it is still a form of copying even in legal terms.  I have seen graphics including the one in question and added them to my worksheets to make them look better but have lacked the time to really post them.  As my Granny would say, "The day you stop learning is the day you die."  I truly believe that and we are here to be helping each other to continue expanding and some times that can be or appear to be immitating/copying others work on that road of growth.  I think the real question was this indivual blown away by Mena �s work and wanted to be better and use her stuff to improve themselves or just lazy and used the easiest method to create a ws to get points on the work of others.  That is hard for us to decide and can really only be decided by the individual themselves; unless it is blatent constantly done.

 

Yes having better rules or more clear rules can be of best help on deciding the final outcome taking away from the "judges" use of personal feelings and more legalistic form.  But that too can become an issue as also stated the biggest changes in Education has been from the minority groups historically speaking.  A slippery slope in both directions of Anarchy to Totalitarism, finding the middle ground is and has always been the hardest thing to do in many aspects of life especially when you add multiculture, multibeliefs, and multi-theologies into the mix.

 

By the way on the copyright laws there is an International law and there are different country laws.  For instance there is a books that are in the open area and can be posted online in America but not in England because the copyright laws differ.  This also goes for pictures and such.  Found it an interesting read and passed it on to one of my favorite history of law professors to see his take on it.  Of course his speciality is Medival Law to modern day.  He just sent me a new copy of Germanic and English laws of the Witch trials with artifacts in the books, can �t wait to start reading it.  Can �t wait for the exams to end in three weeks that book and my Josin Royality history book...  Sorry just got home and it was sitting at my door and I am excited about it...  :)  Plus they are opening the Josin era graves for historical digs this past month...  Like I have mention before a history specialist teaching English to see more history sites in Asia and taking pictures along the way...

You know how much I like you and how much I look up to you as a valued member here but I voted according to my belief in the rules, not ethics. I also understand that some people will not agree with me and might think I don �t get the rules but I can promise anyone here that I vote the same, no matter whose printable it is.

 

Have a good day.

 

Manon

victor

FIRST: It has been voted by many users. Is it so difficult to accept democracy? Was it better when I decided myself alone?   SECOND: Moderators were completely right. I give you a proof. This is the link to the document. You can see it here: http://www.eslprintables.com/archivos2/2009/jun/9/eslprintables20096919815742091393.doc   Download it, open it, and go to file - properties. You will see that it says Author: Mena   This means that this user downloaded a document from mena. Changed the contents (but not the layout) and uploaded it as his own work. This can �t be done without permission of the original author.   It is impossible to make clear rules about everything. Sometimes we need to vote using our common sense and personal opinion. For that reason we have a voting system, and it is working PRETTY WELL. 11 Jun 2009

AND THE SECOND POST:

 

victor

Asking for permission is very easy. That is the least you can do if you want to use other people �s work.   Zailda: All worksheets here are copyrighted by their authors. If you don �t mind other users copying your designs, other users could do. They have the right to be asked first. 11 Jun 2009

 

NOW WE HAVE WRITTEN RULES.

Thanks a lot, dear Victor!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mar

I love when people are inspired by my work and I �m used to it as a teacher trainer. However, I don �t like when people copy it, with little or no adaptation at all, as is the case mentioned above. I privatemessaged the member and he/she aplogised, saying that he/she was in a hurry to get 30 points to be able to make some downloads. So, as you can see, he/she was not trying to improve her /his work. It was just a practical thing that moved him/her. Anyway, I accepted the apologies and forgot all about it.

 

Some members have been inspired by my work and I always praise what they have done. They have managed to create their own style from mine. That �s most healthy in my opinion.

 

As for the fairness of the new system, I �m sure it will be fairer because there won �t be the 2 types of voters I mentioned above. Everybody will now vote according to the rules, not based on personal beliefs. Of course I �m realistic and I �m sure some times I won �t vote because I won �t be able to establish a borderline... As I have said before, if moderators already have hard times with content, imagine now with a layout approach, where all is made on Microsoft Word, which means that there isn �t much choice some times.... some bubbles, some boxes, some shadows, one angle, another angle......

 

 

Enjoy your reading.

mena