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ESL forum >
Message board > STORMED OUT!
STORMED OUT!
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lovinglondon
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STORMED OUT!
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Hi everybody!
I �m just stormed out because on Thursday I talked with the education inspector in my area and he told me that I CAN �T make a student fail because of the behaviour and the indiscipline he shows!! This is just disgusting!!!! he told me I have to assess the student �s knowledge, not his behaviour. I agree with the fact that I must assess his knowledge but a bit of his mark should be also his behaviour and attitude in the class...Don �t you think so???
What would happen if the students knew that we cannot do anything about their behaviour and indiscipline? This would be the war!!!!
Sometimes I �m absolutely furious to see society bounds teachers hands and feet. We cannot do anything and everything plays in favour of the student.
This is just a way to calm myself down...I want to hear your opinions about this.
Thank you for being there!
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24 Jan 2010
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DUSIA
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Oh how much I understand your anger! Unfortunately there is probably nothing you can do. Here in Poland we have more and more problems with students � behaviour. We assess their knowledge and every term they are also assessed for their behaviour however they (those most misbahaving) do not really mind their marks...
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24 Jan 2010
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Zora
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Sorry, but I have to agree with your inspector. A student should not ever be failed because of bad behaviour. I agree that you should be able to take points off for it but only to a point. Failing a student because he talks too much, or disrupts the class, or even talks back is not right. We are adults, we should know better and we should be able to take the higher ground.
The student may misbehave but that certainly doesn �t mean they are stupid or they don �t study hard for exams. Perhaps, they just do not like school and failing them only re-enforces a negative view that they might already have of school.
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24 Jan 2010
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dilex
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we are educators and we prpare students to the future. As teachers we don �t only teach lessons we have to teach them how to behave properly
Schools are not only for lessons |
24 Jan 2010
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lizsantiago
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i also agree with zora, i usually take points off work when they are missbehaving but even if i dont i have seen that those who are not behaving usually won � �t finish their work so in a way their behavior affect their work and usually fail. |
24 Jan 2010
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lovinglondon
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I agree with dilex and I don �t quite agree with Zora (sorry Zora) but what would happen if a misbehave student copy in an exam and you don �t realise and pass???? I should be able to have something to control his/her behaviour, shouldn �t I? It is not fair that we have to put up with them or even their own classmates who DO behave properly and want to learn.
I DO THINK that we teach English language and culture and one of the basic aspects is the respect for the language and the culture on the language you are teaching. I THINK that a student who misbehaves DOESN �T SHOW any respect either for the culture nor for the language and SHOULD BE PUNISHED for that. I don �t mean to make him fail, but lower his mark.
What do you think?
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24 Jan 2010
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Zora
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Misbehaving and cheating are two totally different concepts. A child who misbehaves isn �t necessarily a cheater and a cheater could be the best behaved student in your class. So, lets not confuse the points.
I have zero tolerance for cheating. It would be an automatic fail, no ifs, ands or buts...
Misbehaving is a different thing altogether. I believe that lowering the mark is fine BUT if that student passed his exam honestly, then we should never take that away from him/her. Punishing that way usually makes things far worse and his/her behaviour most likely will only become worse and not better.
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24 Jan 2010
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occurin�
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Yes, we need discipline in classrooms, otherwise they can fall apart. I agree that respecting the culture is important, and also that schools should teach social skills and working well with groups.
But we have to separate academic achievements and behaviour, otherwise students get the impression that their responsibility in the classroom is to do what the teacher tells them. Then they switch off and don�t engage in the work, just tick the boxes to please teacher instead of thinking for themselves. Their primary objective should be learning. Discipline helps us acheive that objective, it is not an end in itself.
The kid can be punished in some other way, instead of failing him.
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24 Jan 2010
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eng789
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Here, a pupil is given his behavior mark by all the teachers that teach him (on his report card) and it has nothing to do with his subject mark.
I have 10% of his English mark that I can use to evaluate him as a pupil - meaning - does he participate in class, does he do homework and a little bit of what his attitude to learning English.
I agree with all of you, it is really frustrating especially because the parents aren �t much help. A lot of parents are havng problems disciplining their kids and ask teachers for help. The thing is that I probably spend more time per day with their kid than they do. How many parents spend a full 45 minutes with their kids? (especially at Junior High age.)
Now that I have said that, I have to leave the forum to do the one thing I hate the most about my job - calling parents to complain about their kids.
Wish me luck.
Have a great week, everyone.
Barbara
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24 Jan 2010
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lshorton99
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I have to agree with Zora, despite how frustrating it is. Behaviour and knowledge are two entirely separate concepts. You cannot fail an able student because their behaviour is bad - it �s a separate issue. In a private academy you can sometimes ask them to leave and in some schools they can be transferred to a different class or made to do their work in a separate room. The truth is, we are limited in how we can control such students.
Most schools assess level and behaviour separately - my school, for example, has separate sections on the student reports for behaviour. Therefore a student can �fail � behaviour but still pass the course. My overall evaluation of them as a student might be lowered by this but it would not affect their marks in any way.
I agree with dilex that we are educators and have to teach more than lessons but what kind of example are we setting by changing a student �s marks because of their behaviour? Isn �t that in some way �cheating �? There are many reasons for bad behaviour and while it should never be acceptable we have to consider more than the attitude they present in class.
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24 Jan 2010
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silviamontra
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Well ... that �s a growing problem in our classrooms. Everyday more and more students behave badly, or at least not as well as it would be expected. And as some of you said, I also believe that they have to be "punished" in some way. Students tend to think that they only thing they need is a 5 (if you mark 1-10) to pass the subject, and as long as they achieve that, they don �t care about anything else. I have defiant students in class that blatantly tell me: "I �ll get a 5 in the exam, so I will pass anyway".
Our way of dealing with that (I wouldn �t dare to call it solution) is to mark their class work, their attitude and their exam mark. Probably a student of mine will not fail because (s)he is behaving badly in class, but this bad attitude will be reflected in his/her quality and amount of work, as well as in his/her behaviour mark. So, all together, (s)he will miss marks in different parts of the evaluating process, so, indeed, (s)he might eventually fail because of bad behaviour, because this will have influenced various parts of his overall mark.
My personal reflection is a bit different, though. I believe, call me old-fashioned, that teachers should teach mostly a subject (call it maths, English, nature, whatever), but we shouldn �t be the ones that teach them how to behave in life. Parents should do this, and the school should only reinforce that. And, I don �t know what happens in your countries, schools and classrooms, but in mine that is not always the case.
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24 Jan 2010
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