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ESL forum > Message board > free template debate    

free template debate



lizsantiago
Puerto Rico

free template debate
 
Today i received a pm about a debate in the reporting page because of one of  the templates i uploaded in the free section. i couldnt see it on time  to give my opinion. the debate was about a ws reported because of the cliparts. it was reported as having copyrighted images.  when i uploaded my template i said that this cliparts where drawn by me and inspired by thistlegirl.  here i posted an original clip (left) and one i drew (right) they are not exactly the same.  i did it to try to help avoid members taking the paid clips from other members. what bothers me about this is that some people said that it is not right or correct to do this. first of all these are just cliparts and not masterpieces, secondly i am not gaining anything, not even points, i am neither claiming ownership nor selling them or inventing the wheel with this.  i havent seen, heard or read about any person who has made copies from paintings from  da vinci, picasso or any other famous artist , being arrested, taken to court or criticised for doing so. for god sakes! we are here to help each other, to learn from each other yet there are some who takes the reporting  as a matter of life and death. i agree that if someone is taking cliparts from others who paid, or abusing this site by posting work from others as theirs should be penalized but come on! and let me clarify, the ws that was removed was not mine , but i feel sorry for the poor member who didnt brake any rule and was penalized by getting reported.  i am also sorry for those who do not agree with me but this is my opinion and i felt the need to say it.  

24 Jun 2011      





judieguv
Costa Rica

Hi dear lizsantiago!

I really agree with you about this topic. don �t worry... You haven �t done enything wrong.

Greetings from Costa Rica!

Diego

25 Jun 2011     



pilarmham
Spain

Dearest Liz,

Let me think about all these ownership issues while I write. I understand you in a way but, at the same time, I think you are not quite right. Copying is copying, and duplicating a picture sounds like it, even if you have the highest aims in mind. I mean, you can copy as long as you create, not just to benefit (or provide a benefit). Why not create your own pictures? (I have no doubt whatsoever that you have the capacity to do it). We can play by the rules (even if we don �t like them all) when we want to be supported by the community, or we can break the rules but, in this case, we can �t expect benevolence: one seeks changes, so one must accept the challenge and take the risk. Copying Picasso or Van Goth means re-creation. I don �t quite think Thishlegirl designs can be compared.

I was just thinking out loud...

I  love your site and your wonderful contributions to this community. 

Thank you.Smile

25 Jun 2011     



lizsantiago
Puerto Rico

pilar  what do you mean by recreation? making an exact copy from la mona lisa isn �t a copy? i can make my own cliparts but this is not the case.. i made those to try at least a bit, the constant discussion in the reporting page about members reporting because of "stolen cliparts".

25 Jun 2011     



pilarmham
Spain

Dear Liz, 

don �t pay too much notice to my nonsense, please... 

what I had in mind is that Mona Lisa belongs to everybody now, it �s a work of art. Thishlegirl designs, however cute they are, have lots of colour and a copyright, but not much more, so we must accept them as they are. They don �t stand for greater values, they just want to sell and admit it openly. 

some things are worth defending, but not all. I guess this is what I mean.

LOL

25 Jun 2011     



lizsantiago
Puerto Rico

well pilar now i get your point, and you might be right , i am sorry but i am mad because no one reports the hundreds of ws with the simpsons, garfield, mickey, and so on which are also copyrighted.

25 Jun 2011     



edrodmedina
United States

I know no one has asked for my two cents, but hey this the internet. Liz has been a help to many of us on this site directly and indirectly with her blog. If I had not known that the picture in the on the right was Liz �s I would swear that it is one of Thistlegirl �s. The problem I guess arises from this fact. Liz has made very good replicas of the originals. Although they are as original as say some of the ws we make here from templates or from adadtations from other sites, there is confusion. That is the reason some ws (other than Liz �s) have been reported, people cannot tell the difference from a copy. Maybe Liz, if you made it obvious that they were yours, let �s say by making sure that we could see your initials somewhere, then there might not be a problem. Of course there will be those who remove the initials and we �ll be right back where we started. I �m not that familiar with copyright laws and I don �t know if what is being done is an infringement of those laws. I know that some artists (from children �s books for instance) copy another �s style to keep the books consistent (eg. the third book in the Alexander and the Terribble, Horrible...Alexander, Who �s Not Going to Move ) but they do mention that they are copying the style of the artist.
I don �t know...maybe we should all move to Australia. Ed

25 Jun 2011     



seansarto
United States

I like to joke with my students that I was granted copyright on the English language so they had better watch what they say to me...and to be honest, the Chinese are very keen on this aspect...Thus they press for more use of their own language....
 
Anways, yeah.."Copyright", intellectual property, and the rise of entertainment technology and social media is beyond insane..It is a fanatcism being legitimized by judcial precedents now. My feeling is that anything you create..is original...You, yourself, are an original...doesn �t matter that you are a human being..or a girl..or what ever generalization that is offereed..Mark Twain once wrote, "Every generalization is dangerous, especially this one".....Genetically, and in space and in time, there will only ever be one of you...So even if you sing the words of another song �s exactly...It is still the original of you doing so...Nobody else can be you at the same time in this life. So all that copyright stuff is hogwash....The difference comes when people start asking money for their creations...Then, you get into all the legal speak of "derivatives"...Every single work of creation on this planet is a derivative....But lately in the intellectual property rights laws, there �s been a growing trend of trying to secure proprieties far beyond reasonable measures...
 I first ran into the infamy when I began my career as a folk musician...I emmulated Bob Dylan..like he emmulated Woody Guthrie..But Woody Guthrie didn�t have a million dollar contract or a billion dollar fan base...I was more like Woody Guthrie..I built houses during the day and played my unpracticed song in the night.....Bob Dylan basically stole a man �s identity...and put his copyright on it....Had he not emmulated Woody Guthrie to the degree that he did he would have never been noticed as a songwriter...Once he got in the door of the New York elite...He and his management slammed the door on anyone doing the same...So to attempt to do what he did, will now cost you tributary monies or royalties, which only shore up his status and wealth....or obscence legal costs...if you are pecieved a threat to his markets...That �s how Dylan ruined the folk music scene....And how kings are made in the modern age and thus, the antithesis and destruction of the U.S.....The folk music scene in the US used to be much more like this site here (but without all the mechanical surveillence)...But a snake in the grass is always seen too late. 
 
 Had the Mona Lisa been painted today...There would be no room to even suggest that it belongs to everybody...
 
Don�t let the bastards grind you down....

25 Jun 2011     



pilarmham
Spain

What you say is so true, seansarto, who can claim absolute originality today? What hasn �t been said and written already? Oscar Wilde was accused of saying what others had said before!  But he said it so differently. He was adding, not repeating.

25 Jun 2011     



seansarto
United States

Thanks for your compliment, pilar...but bein "right" about these kinds of claims these days gets you framed up as playin � second fiddle to the Unabomber....Too smart for your own good...because yer steppin� on the toes of the smarmmy types like John Stewart...So,  Denial seizes the day.

25 Jun 2011     



Anna P
Brazil

One of my professors used to say that originality is taking a bit from here, a bit from there and turn them into something new.  Take H2O, for example. Two hydrogen atoms and a single oxygen atom and...voil�! You get water.

25 Jun 2011     

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