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Make suggestions, report errors > F*cking Worksheet (Excuse my language)
F*cking Worksheet (Excuse my language)
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Zora
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In my opinion the F word is a bad word in any context, in fact there isn�t a "good" context anywhere in the English language for it�s use. So, I think the answer to your question about how to approach it, is quite simple: It is an ugly word and used in whatever context it is offensive and not respectful... Let�s just say - Why in heavens, do they need to know the difference between "she f**ked" and she�s been f**ked"... both are bad and have a very bad meaning and believe me, your students lives will not be any richer for knowing, or not knowing, the difference...
Also to the approach question, I once told a kid - using a very deadpan and serious tone when he thought it was funny to include ten "f" words in a writing exercise that it is a regular verb - conjugate it properly or don�t use it at all... in other words I failed him ... but not because he used "f**k" but because he conjugated the verb wrong. He had used the f word to scandalize me but when it didn�t work, he didn�t ever do it again and neither did any of his friends...
People are quite mistaken to think kids don�t know what the "f" word (in almost any context) means... sometimes when cornered by a teacher, they "pretend" to see if we are innocent and will explain it to them... but honestly with internet at most kids fingertips ... they know exactly what a lot of the stuff means... believe me, I�ve had enough years teaching to know that when something interests kids, they take an active interest in it - especially swear words!!
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6 Oct 2008
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goodnesses
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First, let�s make it clear. I have never had the intention to tell anyone what to teach and how. I have never told anyone that the WS in question shouldn�t be downloaded. I just hoped people took advantage of it to discuss an important issue in the teaching process.
Second it has never been in my intention to turn this kind of discussion into a confrontation. As some people are trying to insinuate.
Third, Yes, I believe it strongly, the way how a teacher reacts in certain situations/circumstances (hearing a swear word in the class) either rises him/her up or gets him/her down in his/her own school in particular and in the society in general. It is not always how he performs a lesson which he had prepared and prepared for beforehand. We can never be 100% prepared for the educational side of our job. (educattional side= those moments/circumstances/occasions where we educate more than we teach (educate = not obligatory moralize))
Finally, I don�t think we can agree with each other since you�re teaching adults 20 years up for 3 years and I have been teaching teenagers 16-19 since 20 years now. I have experienced a lot different situations (embarrassing, difficult, very often wonderful) I had to deal with different mentalities SS. But still, I can�t imagine myself using these kinds of words in my class "on purpose". And this has nothing to do with countries backgrounds differences because the kids today all over the world watch the same kind of "American" movies and play together the same kind of game on the NET.
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6 Oct 2008
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goodnesses
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Hi, Zora - f
I see you�v peempted my post.
Sorry I have some trouble withmy keyboard and my fingers are much "slower" than my mind.
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6 Oct 2008
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goodnesses
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Hi, Zora - f
All in all, what I want to point out is just that a "teacher" like a "doctor", a "layer", a "policeman" ,... has limits he "shouldn�t" exceed otherwise it won�t be teaching but rather "social assistance".
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6 Oct 2008
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Mietz
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Hi - especially to Zora - f and goodnesses,
I agree with you, that the f*-word is a bad word. But it is being used in real life. If I see it necessary, I want my students to comprehend it - in different aspects.
One thing you should mind is, that I teach adults above the age of 20. I don�t teach below that age. I think that makes a difference. Almost everything you said was about teaching kids (zora - f). I don�t (want to) treat my adult students as such. And I really wouldn�t like to be the judge for what would enrich their lives (concerning that kind of language).
Goodnessess - sorry, if you think, that I want to make this into a confrontation. That really wasn�t my intention at all. We are not going to agree on this subject, but I find your thoughts enriching. Otherwise I wouldn�t have joined the discussion. It certainly gets me thinking. Hopefully you aren�t doubting my respect for you (it seems so in your last part). I wouldn�t dare!
A couple more thoughts:
I personally know lots of native speakers, who are permanently using this kind of language. Quite a few of them are primary teachers at different international schools. They are intelligent and well read people who have lived in places all over the world. I actually wonder, why their attitude is so different to yours. (No offense!) I�ve seen a few of them teach and work with children. From my point of view they are really great teachers (judged by the fact, that they are well liked by kids and parents and well integrated in their staff teams). Just because they use language which I - as a non-native speaker - don�t approve of, I couldn�t afford not spending time with them. I�ve benefitted too much from their experiences and knowlegde.
I find the separation of teaching and education interesting. I haven�t looked at it from this point of view, but I can see what you mean now. That�s why I asked. My first thoughts are, that I don�t like seeing myself as a teacher (I know I�m one...). With adults that often isn�t an appreciated role. Maybe that is, why I associate it with moralising. For me - it�s all about (adult) education. Therefore I certainly agree with you about the fact, that the reaction to certain language in the classroom makes you rise or fall as a teacher, though I�d rather not put down different methods as right or wrong. The goal is to get students not to use this kind of language. There are different ways of getting there. I don�t agree however on the impact of that on society - again for a teacher of adults. A teacher isn�t the only influence on his / her students. Whichever method I use, I can�t guarantee for the outcome anyway.
Just to summarise my point(s) of view:
We aren�t going to agree about the use of this worksheet and it�s aims. Different views. Different methods... I think we do agree about the fact though, that we don�t like the use of this language and we don�t want our students to use it.
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6 Oct 2008
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Zora
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I think that we will have to agree to disagree on this - which is Okay, everybody has their views on the matter.
And I�d like to point out that a lot of people use the word, heck even I do, but it�s not something I consciously do and if somebody points it out to me, I feel kind of bad for having used it since I realise it is offensive and not a good word to be using to express my thoughts.
Also, I am at that age (30 something  ) that I can probably tell you why the "f" word is used by so many people nowadays... it�s basically become more "acceptable" to use it (as well as other swear words) among the younger generations and more modern older ones- It�s sort of like "a soft rebellion" in a way against the strict standards of the social norm before the seventies and eighties. A good example of this is my mother used to always say, "A lady never uses that type of language." when I was growing up and used a swear word.
But I believe that sometimes the old addage "Do what I say and not what I do." is best... since people/teenagers shouldn�t ever think it�s cool to show others that they know how to swear in English. That�s why I�m kind of against this worksheet because it gives the conotation that it�s OK to use this kind of language when actually, even those teachers that you were talking about would be ashamed and never use it in front of a well respected lawyer, doctor, policeman, etc.
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7 Oct 2008
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Mietz
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Zora - f - I can�t add much to your last statement. I agree (to disagree in some parts) and / or can relate to most things you said.
I can certainly promise you, that I never had the intention to go promoting this kind of language as OK - nor will I do so. I can see your point there, but I wouldn�t have left using the worksheet at that anyway.
About your last sentence - when these teachers change roles to "very drunk British (football fans)" I�m not so sure about their being ashamed about their language towards anybody. That�s when I do avoid them, because my upbringing forbids me to be associated with that kind of behaviour.
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7 Oct 2008
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Zora
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Hi Mietz, I think anybody who turns into a "drunk British football fan" isn�t ashamed of what they said because they are usually to drunk to remember! 
Anyhow, it was fun discussing this topic with you, I can certainly see your points about certain things even though we aren�t totally in agreement with things.
Cheers,
Linda
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8 Oct 2008
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