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ESL forum >
Grammar and Linguistics > Confusing modal meaning
Confusing modal meaning
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mariflo
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Confusing modal meaning
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Hi there! I came across this answer in one of my students � tests and I �m in a dilemma about how to take it. The sentence is: It ................................................. by Monday (must/finish) (It should be in Passive). According to the key it should be: It must be finished by Monday. The student wrote : It must have been finished by Monday. Can it be acceptable in the sense of having the obligation to have completed sth by some point in the future or this use of must + have + past participle can only express logical deduction for the past? Thanks in advance |
8 Mar 2015
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Gi2gi
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Hi, marflo. It is an interesting issue you have raised. Generally, (and this seems to be applicable to the case with your student) when modal verbs are used to express probability the simple infinitive refers to the future and the perfect infinitive to the past: It must be finished by Monday. (FUTURE) It must have been finished by Monday (PAST) But, if you use a phrase that clearly implies the future, you can also use the perfect infinitive for the future, just like you would use the future perfect tense: It must have been finished by next week (FUTURE)
ps . Also, please have in mind that here we do not have must + have + past participle , we have an infinitive in the perfect form (also referred to as a perfect infinitive) must + perfect infinitive (passive)
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8 Mar 2015
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melissab
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In my opinion, It must have been finished by Monday is incorrect. The correct way to express the obligation of a deadline would be: It should have been done by Monday. I �m a native English speaker and cannot recall a time I have heard the expression must have been done. Remember that modals have incomplete verb tenses. |
8 Mar 2015
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ELOJOLIE274
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found on the internet: "Garrard, followed by Contini, argues that the paintings must have been finished by 1633 and that they were part of a shipment sent by Monterrey from Naples to ..." so your student is not incorrect, both answers are indeed grammatically correct and can fit the gap (unless there �s more to the sentence you gave) if the sentence had been "it .... by next monday/week" then there would only have been one possible answer it must be finished by next monday... "by monday" can actually be in the past (today is sunday and i can either consider monday as tomorrow, or the 1st day of last week... by the way, here "must" has 2 meanings it must be finished by monday = obligation AND/OR strong probability depending on the context it must have been finished by monday = strong probability, no obligation |
8 Mar 2015
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alien boy
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Just a quick note re Gi2gi �s comment: I �ve never actually read or used the final construction (off the top of my head) in the way asserted at the end of his statement. (It must have been finished by next week (FUTURE)) I �m at work now, so will try to reply more conclusively later today. You �re student �s answer, as per your hypothosis, is correct as past tense, or as referral to a possible past to some point in the future, even if that past time is in your current future. (hope that makes some sort of sense) Cheers, AB |
8 Mar 2015
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jean-in-japan
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Re Gi2gi �s final sentence, as a native speaker, I don �t think it �s possible to say �it must have been finished by next week. � I can �t imagine any situation where this would be correct. Re the original poster- this use of must + have + past participle can only express logical deduction for the past? Yes, in my opinion, this is correct. It can not be used for the future, but only for logical deduction for the past. |
8 Mar 2015
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Gi2gi
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Thanks for the comments regarding the perfect infinitive for the future. I wonder what your comments would be for this: We hope to have finished the building works by the end of March. (future)
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9 Mar 2015
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alien boy
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Will do when I get home in a few hours time!
Please note one important difference - your latest example doesn�t include the modal verb �must�, just to begin with. You may need to find an apple to compare your apple with! |
9 Mar 2015
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Gi2gi
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AB, I will be looking forward to more convincing ideas than a figurative saying about apples... What about this one: By that date all the forms required must have been completed and returned to the School Administration office
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9 Mar 2015
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alien boy
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That �s a much better apple, thank you. When I finally get home from work, I �ll see if I can help you.
In the meantime, anyone else is welcome to chime in, too. |
9 Mar 2015
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Gi2gi
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AB, in fact you have misunderstood the context - I do not need your help at all because I do not consider you capable to help or advise on something! Maybe it is you who needs to be helped after all. Leave your (wrong) ideas with you. Hopefully, this will end my conversation with you - enough of botany for me today. |
9 Mar 2015
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