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ESL forum >
Message board > Cancelled account
Cancelled account
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almaz
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Zailda,
You wrote:
One more question: who is "the Boss"? God? Jesus? Victor?
None of them is my "Boss", sorry.
Essentially, you are agreeing that ownership is at the root of this debate and that decisions seem to be made arbitrarily at the whim of the individual who owns the site: the person who makes the rules is the only one who can break the rules. This raises the question: are we a community or simply a collection of resources?
By the way, I support you 100%.
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15 Feb 2010
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mena22
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Dear Silke, if I believed a copied version wouldn �t be removed because moderators couldn �t be impartial, I wouldn �t be here right now. |
15 Feb 2010
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Siemes_
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Unfortunately there is not impartiality in the reporting page and all the moderators seems to vote based in their feelings concerning friendship and human values and not in the other way. But then this is typical from human beings since everyone tend to protect their friends till the death, even when they are wrong and doing mistakes and not the opposite.
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15 Feb 2010
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mena22
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I �m very sorry to hear that. Impartiality is an essential condition for a moderator. If he/she can �t act accordingly, he/she must be wise enough to refrain from voting. |
15 Feb 2010
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mena22
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I �m sorry Siemes, but experience tells me that your are wrong. Fortunately. Please, do not make generalizations unless you can prove them. |
15 Feb 2010
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Siemes_
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This case from Mar is a real prove that this impartiality is NOT happening into the reporting page.
Her friends, inclusive the owner even knowing the truth have voted to her to stay. Even knowing Mar did mistakes here uploading "copied" ws (with the links to proving they were a copy) from her mother and saying:
"oh, I did not know...!!? my mother never told me that she took and copied all from a book"
can anyone believe in this yet? just her friends believe in this I am afraid, but I don�t.
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15 Feb 2010
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David Lisgo
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The first comment on one of Mar �s vocabulary worksheets was "STOLEN! STOLEN! STOLEN! (in reference to all of her vocabulary worksheets) and the title of the book was given. I mentioned this comment on the reported page so I know that other members saw it, too. Mar is not entirely innocent in this affair. She had been informed that the worksheets were stolen at the onset, but chose to keep them. I could report more of her worksheets today if I wanted to, but this is no longer just about Mar and her account.
IMO Victor has handled this situation badly. He could have suspended her account for a while, taken all her points, but then she could have come back, reuploaded her worksheets under the same rules as anyone else and got all her points and friends back. Instead the precedent that has been set makes a mockery of the rules and has destroyed the faith of many in this site. |
16 Feb 2010
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mena22
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I know how you and many others must be feeling David and I �m sure victor himself is feeling pretty bad about this because if, on the one hand, he felt responsible for what happened and, therefore, decided to activate Mar �s account, on the other hand he appreciates the members of his site too much to hurt them - including moderators like you, Zailda, MJ_Misa, Silka, Silvia and many others who greatly help this site to be what it is.
Some think he handled this situation badly, others believe he tried to do his best taking into account that he blamed no one but himself for having allowed the worksheets of Mar �s mother to stay a year ago. I am with this second group. He may not have taken the best decision, that �s true, but he took the one he could or thought right and I �m willing to accept that and move on, i.e., I �m ready to start thinking of ways to make the banning system better, with previous notice to the member who has infringed the rules, for example, thus giving him/her the opportunity to update the reported worksheet. In my opinion, this is the only logical thing to do now for I truly believe in the principles of democracy.
As for the reason why Mar did not remove or update the worksheets which were copied from the old book, only she can tell, but I can think of no other reason but the one someone has said before, that no one had the book to confirm and Mar thought someone was reporting her worksheets out of revenge. I really don �t know David. As I said, only Mar can tell us that.
I can only say that I feel very uncomfortable with this situation and I do hope victor and the members of ESLprintables will soon come up with some ideas to make rules clearer and improve the banning system of the site.
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16 Feb 2010
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Siemes_
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I agree 100% with you David but nothing
can be done anymore, a correction was made above a mistake and for sure Victor
will not ban or remove her account again, even if other members find
more stolen/copied worksheet from books in her account and the excuses
for all of us will be:
"oh! old worksheets can not be removed
from old members just if they are copied and have the link proving (but Mar and old members who contribute more will continue here with their account and all the
points will be granted because she is so nice and friendly and
Honest???) because in that time where they were uploaded there were not
the same rules that the site has now" so, she and her material
stays."
so I ask to myself - why the good members who pray and claim for justice
for everbody to be equal here will bother themselves in helping again this
reported page? there is no good sense to support AFS YACILINK campaign as well
since it is a hipocrisy or contribute anymore or continuing helping in
this hard task anymore if all of us know that the efforts will be in vain in "Special" cases some tell.
so you see clearly that Mar have got a kind of special
"protection" in this web site, so I guess that the best
we can do is stopping to report copied material inside the reporting
page (some are already doing this and not voting anymore), since it has not anymore any good purpose and maybe , just
maybe if all members refuse not helping anymore this kind of Reported
page, and no one help anymore perhaps he will rethink to maintain this
system in this way or not.
well let�s see what will happen now.
Fair, Democratic and unpartial this web site is not .period. and it is not a fault of the creator of this website but it is fault of the "very common people behaviour" who are here sharing everything good and bad and "almost living together" in their daily routine that is a
fact unfortunately. sorry but it is what the most of us think and no
one is brave enough or wants to say I guess.
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16 Feb 2010
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zailda
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Silke, I wonder how far Mar �s friends can go in their cruzade to distort the rules. Today Zora said someone (who could be one of us, because he was a zero-point member) had reported unfairly another of Mar �s wss. I don �t know, the reporting page doesn �t interest me anymore.
Now you say that the wss were uploaded (repeated) on purpose, because the description of one was different from the other.
Poor Mar. It looks like the moderators and some zero-point members insist in reporting her stolen and repeated material, and keep asking for this childsh and vain thing: justice.
Of course in the kind of facebook ESL used to be, there weren �t disputes or fights before we registered, they were a bunch of friends and the atmosphere was so calm and relaxing...
But I see those "old members" who belong to the "old ESL" insulting and accusing people without proofs; I see them voting wss against the rules to protect a "friend" ignoring the fact that the wss weren �t reported unfairly.
We didn �t do anything wrong, we only did what the owner told us to do.
In fact, our mistake, if there was one, was that when the owner told us that he needed help to keep the site clean, and we were to report and remove material against the rules, we believed.
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16 Feb 2010
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